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My comments on current Complex "Balance"
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Grober

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:30 am    Post subject:  My comments on current Complex "Balance"
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I will only discuss Hiigarians as i'm playing as them and about 90% of games that i played were with them without Vaygr.

1. Currently i feel like Interceptors are useless, and they limit cap is way to low.
Building them in my opinion is waste of resources.

2. Fighters and Corvettes are to weak compeered to Frigates.

3. Resource Collectors are to hard to kill with Interceptors.

4. Asteroids are to tough.

5. I feel like in current balance best option is to tech as fast as you can to get to Destroys / Battlecruisers then attacking and harashing your enemy with low tech.


I would like to see Fighters and Corvettes are a proper force even in end game when they are massed.
I think that Interceptor cost should be lower or Corvetes/Frigates/Capitals should be more pricey.
Interceptors cannons are useless they need buff. Think about some end game upgrade for interceptors like switching from cannons to lasers/pulsar or adding them a missile.

Other option would be adding another fighter that have better firepower.
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Sheirmerale

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:09 pm    Post subject:  
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I must admit that Fighters are now much more efficiency then ever before, especially the bomber. Proper use of bomber can do fatal damage to capital ship. You know that bomber can destroy subsystem in very short time right? In a multiplayer match your foe usually won't be able to check every ship's position and rearm the weapon slot, even do so will make them panic.

Interceptors in my opinion are used to strike enemy small units group and exit battlezone by bursting their engine, so actually I don't expect their performance in other way. Destroy enemy fighters and leave, that's my strategy.

BTW, complex 10 need optimization rather than balance. I think I'm not the only one who suffer from the lag. Yet i'm still optimistic in complex development, good game experience. Smile
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Sharg

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:22 pm    Post subject:  
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Interceptors in my opinion are used to strike enemy small units group and exit battlezone by bursting their engine, so actually I don't expect their performance in other way. Destroy enemy fighters and leave, that's my strategy.


But that's just the thing. Interceptors DON'T destroy "small unit groups" quickly. They take forever to kill anything. I've had a group of interceptors chase a Scout for 3 minutes without destroying it. They are pretty useless, even in the scenario you describe.
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MaxL_1023

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:43 am    Post subject:  
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From my experience, interceptors are extremely effective against the AI. They defeat corvettes easily, do enough damage to resource collectors to be effective (similar to the base game - it takes 10-15 of them to kill one in a single pass) and are also effective at screening against bombers and laser fighters.

The main issue I am finding is that the Vagyr race seems to be too strong against the AI. I can't point to one thing (unless a hidden number or typo is making something broken - I have seen it before), but I have trouble beating a Hard Vagyr AI as Hiigaran, however I can take out two Extreme Hiigaran AI as Vagyr with no difficulty.

Maybe it is because the AI does not build missile defenses - they seemed to let my HMFs batter the MS down nearly unopposed while trying to counter interceptors with gunships and platforms.
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ALC

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:19 pm    Post subject:  
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I find that Interceptors need to be used en-masse in large groups to be effective. i generally only use them against enemy bombers, interceptors, and scouts.
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MaxL_1023

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:35 pm    Post subject:  
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One other thing is that the rank-based unit class significantly restricts the variability in early and mid-game strategies. You basically have to spam fighters and hope the enemy defenses don't kill too many, or spam defenses and hope you kill enough fighters to reach corvettes, frigates and capital ships.

One possible fix would be replacing the rank-based ship selection with rank-based unit caps, then having research directed towards unlocking the ship types. You already need to research capital ships, but you get all the frigates for free and most of the strike craft.

Replacing the three unit cap technologies per class with unit type research would not massively change the resource balance. Advanced ships like ion frigates, Grinders or Laser fighters could then require tech level ~3, preventing instantaneous rushing of these unit types.

...

In an unrelated question, does the ultimate laser turret on the Vagyr flagship work? I have closed to close range with enemy motherships and not seen it fire, even when directed to force attack.
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The Doctor

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject:  
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Sheirmerale wrote:
I must admit that Fighters are now much more efficiency then ever before, especially the bomber. Proper use of bomber can do fatal damage to capital ship. You know that bomber can destroy subsystem in very short time right? In a multiplayer match your foe usually won't be able to check every ship's position and rearm the weapon slot, even do so will make them panic.


I really like it, really gives me BSG/carrier-group vibes with numerous battlegrouped-sqaudrons of strikecraft weaving between your defences in the battle and actually being a relevant and realistic threat if you don't have your own air wing and defensive turrets to mitigate them. BUT, I have to agree with this:

Sharg wrote:

But that's just the thing. Interceptors DON'T destroy "small unit groups" quickly. They take forever to kill anything. I've had a group of interceptors chase a Scout for 3 minutes without destroying it. They are pretty useless, even in the scenario you describe.



The main problem I'm experiencing is that interceptors seem not to be able to shoot down enemy strikecraft at all, which means it's difficult to 'balance' out against strikecraft hordes. In any serious naval or aviation context, the primary obstacle to enemy fighters is your own, but unfortunately in the current build interceptors just can't kill anything strikecraft sized, which then throws off the whole equation.

My Hiigaran interceptors, at least, are so consistently incapable of actually hitting their targets that they appear to output almost zero damage against enemy strikecraft simply because they never actually hit. As such, even when I'm micromanaging multiple wings of interceptors to screen against enemy bombers, the bombers can just fly past unmolested. Amusingly, because they can more frequently hit larger, slower targets, they do reasonably against corvettes and the more armoured ships they're meant to be less adept at damaging.





The other thing that I find difficult is micromanagement without squadrons; while battlegroups do a good job of establishing flexible groups of strikecraft, finding them in the messy blobs of battle is difficult, because the level 2 overlay doesn't show the unit icons until very zoomed out, and there's so much clutter with weapon ranges and auras on the level 3 overlay that, though it'll highlight all your ships, it's hard to see what's going on anyway.

I find the fully-upgraded fighter cap of 24 to be a bit small, tbh, though everything has to be relative to the per-fighter DPS and survivability tbf.
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ALC

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject:  
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The Doctor wrote:
The main problem I'm experiencing is that interceptors seem not to be able to shoot down enemy strikecraft at all, which means it's difficult to 'balance' out against strikecraft hordes. In any serious naval or aviation context, the primary obstacle to enemy fighters is your own, but unfortunately in the current build interceptors just can't kill anything strikecraft sized, which then throws off the whole equation.
This sounds like a significant issue alright. Interceptors need a bit of a boost in either accuracy, maneuverability or speed, or all three.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:20 pm    Post subject:  
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Accuracy, IMO. Maybe a hair of speed as well. Once they actually start HITTING something they do OK (I usually group up 5 in Claw, have 10-15 total) but they only seem able to hit things like Bombers when they are RIGHT behind them
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:31 pm    Post subject:  
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Some other issues I'm finding with balance-
Echoing something I saw somewhere else about power levels for big ships- my Higaarin battle cruisers almost always seem to be out of power.... even though I'm at 9-10 power core training. If possible give them some kind of power multiplier due to the size of their power plants?

Fast Tracking cannons seem to be utterly useless now. I used to use them a ton in old Complex versions, would always have 1-2 Flack Destroyers. Now.... I had 4 destroyers, each with 1 Fast Tracking cannon, and it took them a good minute to down a SINGLE bomber. Either the explosion radius of the flack is super small (it seemed like the bomber was barely being hit) or it really needs to have the damage buffed.

The little repair bots you can build as Higaarin seem to have something funky with their AI. I usually build a small group and then use Y to tell them to "repair" my whole fleet of capital ships. That worked well in old versions- once one ship is repaired, they run off and find the next most damaged ship to repair. Now, I see them glued to my battlecruiser which APPEARS to have full health while my destroyer's are being demolished. One thing I'm wondering is if the health bars are wacky? Like I said, it LOOKS like it has full health, but they're still there welding away.... maybe something to do with using Defense Modules?

Sentinel Platforms.... please stop the constant rotation they do in combat. It throws off their Ion Cannons far too much. Maybe even other guns too, but they'd be harder to tell- it's super obvious with the ion's.

I've lost the purpose for the shuttle, I think. I never used it to ferry units around (sorry, but the load/unload is just too slow and I've never liked the juggernauts) but I frequently used it as a support unit with it's defense shield and 4 anti missile guns and high speed to go rescue someone getting hammered on.
Now.... maybe I missed it, but it doesn't seem like it has the defense shield? It only has 2 gun slots, and it's speed is a lot slower (although to be fair the speed of the old one was a bit ridiculous.) I've taken to using a full carrier with it's 4 gun slots, more modules, and build/dock facilities instead of ever fielding shuttles. And carriers are way cheaper and more versitile (can build repair bots, send out harvesters to collect battle debris, carry sensors.... waaaay better)
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:28 am    Post subject:  
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Regarding the Vaygr AI being too strong: Missile Frigates are just way too overpowered actually, unless you've got these anti-missile units / platforms.
Atleast they're what I had a lot of problems with.

While being at it: Is there a reason why the Taiidan (except for being the newest additon) seem to lack units? They haven't got any platforms and lack better resource management (compare with Vaygr Ressource Fusion)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:02 am    Post subject:  
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There were not much time for creating new content for taidan.
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