Homeworld 2 Complex Forum Index
 Portal •  Blog •  Album •  FAQ  •  Search  •  Memberlist  •  Usergroups   •  Calendar   •  Register  •  User Panel  •  Log in to check your private messages  •  Log in
  FlashChat  •  Statistics  •  Links  •   Downloads  •   Comments to your karma  •  Toplist  •  Guestbook  •  Recent topics  •  Voting forum
Two Questions - Missiles and Performance
Users browsing this topic:0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 0 Guests
Registered Users: None

Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Homeworld 2 Complex Forum Index -> General
View previous topicEmail to a Friend.Users who have viewed this topicSave this topic as a txt filePrintable versionLog in to check your private messagesView next topic
Author Message
SpootKnight

Lieutenant
Lieutenant


Complex Patron



Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 68
SpootKnight is offline 







italy
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:27 pm    Post subject:  Two Questions - Missiles and Performance
Description:
Reply with quote

The first is directed to players that have done team games; something I've seen that to my knowledge is unknown.

Who's run any session with 2+ players in teams and encountered an issue where allied (self or teammate) anti-missile turrets track and intercept the torpedoes of the same team's ships? It's easy to see where this would become a problem, trying to prevent the opposing team (especially Vaygr) from hitting high-value targets with missile defense, only to find out that your Destroyers and Defense Platforms are shooting down your ally's missiles instead. Little is actually done to defend against the attack and more ships are lost than there should have been under normal conditions.

The second question is for the team, on game performance.

Based on observations as a player, would it be possible to allow for a toggle of the semi-persistent dust effect on harvesting, and add a degree of chance in drop rate of ship wreckage for salvage?

These two additions are novel ideas in both aesthetics and gameplay of each feature respectively. However, they are the only things I can see (not counting ships) that are new in Complex, where the other visuals are revisions of what Homeworld already has. I cannot say I know the inner workings of the base game and the mod, but something in Complex was changed or added that turns my ability to run 4v4 games with the unit cap on High without any loss of FPS two hours in, to slowing to a crawl on 2v2 games in half the time, while the High unit cap in Complex is smaller than the original game's Normal cap. Something doesn't add up. And given that the times I've seen an OOS occur was when the game has become extremely slow, it makes me wonder...

Could it be the new effects? I know that given time all the available resource points would be occupied, so that's a lot of dust clouds being kicked up. And even with the changes for wrecks to disappear over time, there's still hundreds of them present given a sufficiently-large fight.

If it would do anything for performance, I'd like to be able to disable the dust, or not see ship wrecks appear 100% of the time they're destroyed. Maybe a low chance for small ships, to give the impression that they typically disintegrate, with an increasing chance as the ship size increases, as there's more of it to remain partially intact.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Oni

Lead Artist
Lead Artist


Complex Team

Gender: Gender:Male

Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 1322
Oni is offline 

Location: Czech





czechrepublic
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:23 pm    Post subject:  
Description:
Reply with quote

Will be good to post save file when you have FPS issues. I can check the content and do some changes.
Yes wrecks and RU clouds can cause performance degradation over time, but it should not be that much.
The game slows down even without these features after long play.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alewx

3D Artist
3D Artist


Complex Patron

Gender: Gender:Male
Age: 28
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 529
Alewx is offline 

Location: Carlow

Occupation: trained Game-Designer



germany
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:37 pm    Post subject:  
Description:
Reply with quote

Oni wrote:
Will be good to post save file when you have FPS issues. I can check the content and do some changes.
Yes wrecks and RU clouds can cause performance degradation over time, but it should not be that much.
The game slows down even without these features after long play.


Can all wrecks get salvaged to gain some RU back? So far in my games I only could take some fighters and corvettes. then salvaging could improve performance after battles.

_________________
To boldly go where no man has gone before.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SpootKnight

Lieutenant
Lieutenant


Complex Patron



Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 68
SpootKnight is offline 







italy
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:43 pm    Post subject:  
Description:
Reply with quote

Oni wrote:
Will be good to post save file when you have FPS issues. I can check the content and do some changes.
Yes wrecks and RU clouds can cause performance degradation over time, but it should not be that much.
The game slows down even without these features after long play.

I'll run a SP game so I can get a save to send.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Oni

Lead Artist
Lead Artist


Complex Team

Gender: Gender:Male

Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 1322
Oni is offline 

Location: Czech





czechrepublic
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:51 pm    Post subject:  
Description:
Reply with quote

Well the capital wrecks are way too big and they did not fit into carriers docking bays.
Spliting the wreck into small pieces still did not resolve the size issue.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SpootKnight

Lieutenant
Lieutenant


Complex Patron



Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 68
SpootKnight is offline 







italy
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:25 am    Post subject:  
Description:
Reply with quote

Okay. It seems there's a considerable difference in elapsed time-to-lag between solo games and multiplayer. I don't know how much help this will be, but
Only registered users can see links on this board!
Get registred or enter the forums!


Total time to this point is about two and a half hours. At worst I was probably around 25FPS on the most involved moments.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CHIMAS

Commodore
Commodore




Gender: Gender:Male
Age: 46
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 261
CHIMAS is offline 

Location: Rio Grande

Occupation: Business



brazil
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:54 am    Post subject:  
Description:
Reply with quote

Oni,
For those large salvagable wrecks, like frigates, I would break them in 2 pieces and only one of them would be recyclable. The thing is, when the collector has to collect and dock carrying the wreck, you note it can't fit in the (carrier's) bay.

Half of it will do ...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Oni

Lead Artist
Lead Artist


Complex Team

Gender: Gender:Male

Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 1322
Oni is offline 

Location: Czech





czechrepublic
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:23 pm    Post subject:  
Description:
Reply with quote

Yep i know about this clipping.
That dockpath needs to be moved little bit back.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Oni

Lead Artist
Lead Artist


Complex Team

Gender: Gender:Male

Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 1322
Oni is offline 

Location: Czech





czechrepublic
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:22 pm    Post subject:  
Description:
Reply with quote

SpootKnight wrote:
Okay. It seems there's a considerable difference in elapsed time-to-lag between solo games and multiplayer. I don't know how much help this will be, but
Only registered users can see links on this board!
Get registred or enter the forums!


Total time to this point is about two and a half hours. At worst I was probably around 25FPS on the most involved moments.


Yes i have around 15 FPS here.
If I pause the game i have around 115 FPS. The source of FPS drops is caused by update scripts for experience/fuel and other mechanics.
Removing debries did not improve performance because they are map objects and they did not count for update logic.
So how to improve performance, first we must remove number of live ships that means remove AI Ally player and remove Second CPU AI enemy.

Or we can remove experience/ fuel system from the game. That will significantli boost the performance.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SpootKnight

Lieutenant
Lieutenant


Complex Patron



Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 68
SpootKnight is offline 







italy
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:44 pm    Post subject:  
Description:
Reply with quote

True. The idea was to emulate what a session would be like with a team player versus bots game. Multiplayer sessions are pretty seldom in my case so I'm normally not concerning myself with having full maps.

Though it is unfortunate that the cause involves features that add a degree of tactics to the game. Since the weapon assets were revised to not need experience, that particular aspect has lost some of its relevance, but the fuel would be a more significant loss.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jelrak

Commander
Commander




Gender: Gender:Male
Age: 41
Joined: 13 Jan 2016
Posts: 147
Jelrak is offline 







canada
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:10 am    Post subject:  
Description:
Reply with quote

I also would vote on potentially removing the XP component, but removing fuel would be very unfortunate...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alewx

3D Artist
3D Artist


Complex Patron

Gender: Gender:Male
Age: 28
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 529
Alewx is offline 

Location: Carlow

Occupation: trained Game-Designer



germany
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:04 pm    Post subject:  
Description:
Reply with quote

Oni wrote:
Or we can remove experience/ fuel system from the game. That will significantli boost the performance.


This depends on how it is implemented, is it object based or a manager where the items get registered? that way it could get a bit improved, as there is only one object running and pushing out updates instead of all ships having separate updates running.

_________________
To boldly go where no man has gone before.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SpootKnight

Lieutenant
Lieutenant


Complex Patron



Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 68
SpootKnight is offline 







italy
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:48 am    Post subject:  
Description:
Reply with quote

I do know now that a multiplayer 1v1 can be done without any issue, even when the match is staged for non-stop fighting to maximize experience gain and fuel consumption.

The feedback I got on fuel was even though it is a system an official title included, the life expectancy of strike craft provides only occasional chances to see it in use - they take damage, survive and get repaired, or die in their first fight. After an hour of constant fighting between replenishing fleets, neither of us actually had fuel issues. It ends up being such that our only concern on the condition of our strike craft was in their hull, we docked only to keep them from entering the next fight at 50% hull, not because chasing bombers drained a quarter of their fuel.

Now that I think of it, fuel even seemed to be the same way in HW1 - an afterthought in the grand scheme of unit management. Dock to repair, because you either keep them repaired frequently enough that running dry is impossible, or they die before it can happen.

Because it was said this was where the overhead was, I'd like to ask if they could become game options later on, like how it was in HW1. If being able to disable the system would allow for larger multiplayer sessions with better performance, it would be a significant plus.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Teldrean

Ensign
Ensign






Joined: 03 May 2012
Posts: 4
Teldrean is offline 







italy
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:36 pm    Post subject:  
Description:
Reply with quote

Yea, i got the same expirience, Fuel and the way it is now... you can pretty much ignore it, cause either your fighter blow up before they get even to half of it, or you repair them anyway so they are refilled, on an 3 hour match with 2 Ais on max difficutly, it was rare that a fighter woud survive draining his tank to half before getting blown to pieces, so ther was just no reason to even care abbout fuel.

I think the only way to get even close to an emtpy tank for fighters is having them patrol for a long time in a pretty much safe zone.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CHIMAS

Commodore
Commodore




Gender: Gender:Male
Age: 46
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 261
CHIMAS is offline 

Location: Rio Grande

Occupation: Business



brazil
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:58 pm    Post subject:  
Description:
Reply with quote

Quote:
Or we can remove experience/ fuel system from the game. That will significantli boost the performance.


From our experience when we were trying FUEL in HWR Mod (before GBX arrived), it would have to be something in the middle of 150 and 250, it would have to use support frigates (for HW1) or carriers (for HW2) for mid and long ranges. Also, you'd have to study if refuelling would have to be an "auto-recall" mode, as it is for the AI. This auto-recall is an important feature, because better than checking every fighter for fuel, deciding where they will hit next is more exciting, not to mention, deciding which of the remaining fighters can attack while the defenders are docking fo refuelling.

In the context of COMPLEX, it could be a GAME MODE of its own, maybe a "strikecraft only" mode.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Homeworld 2 Complex Forum Index -> General All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum


Homeworld 2 Complex topic RSS feed 
Powered by MasterTopForum Premium with phpBB 2003 - 2009