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This is not complex anymore
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deadlynerd

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italy
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:27 pm    Post subject:  This is not complex anymore
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I've been playing complex since v7. Complex is the only version of HW I've played because it was the only space RTS that offered such a large variety of units and detailed management.

Complex 10 has cut down on everything. Some of those changes are welcome, many are downright stupid.

What I like:
-unified research
--researching attack,engines,health etc. for every type of ship was a pain in the ass
-vagyr finally got a version of scavenger
-separated unit caps
-fuel & power
-unit balance(although the Grinder is shite and fortress is still shite)
-new ui
-cool new effects
-easy to determine what's good against what
-larger module ranges

What I don't like:
-new ui
--it's as if it's been squashed from the sides
--no more "total overview"
--where the .... is "exit to main menu" button? wtih the SSD I can sooner Alt+F4 and run the game again
-optimization is non existent
--wanna play 3 AIs? good luck at 16fps once they start shitting out corvettes and fighters in 100s
--"general error" - that.didn't.exist.
--desync is now more common
-where did all the fucking ships go?
--where are my artillery frigates?
--where are my battleships?
--where the hell is the dreadnaught? oh right, the Grinder... IT'S NOT A DREAD
--WHERE.THE......ARE.CRUISERS.
-unit caps are a joke
--31 utility vs 16 battle capitals vs 24 frigates - does that seem like a fucking good ratio to you?
---let's not forget that those 16 battle capitals can be 16 battlecruisers - that shit was not possible in <10 and that's why I liked it
-probes are now utility ships
--THEY'RE NOT SHIPS, THEY'RE NOT CREWED
-double click select now selects all same ships on MAP
--wait, WHY would I want that?
-"what should we put as research values?", "let's just make it 10% per level and shove it in 'done' pile"
--this exact decision is why unit caps are so screwed
-to build a destroyer in shipyard you need admiral rank, to build it in flagship you don't
--eh, what???
-there is no more info on time required to research/build
-you still didn't solve the problem of figuring out whether a module covers certain units or not
--no, the 2 circles don't cut it
--a far more intuitive way is to highlight what's effected

Yeah, you'll counter the units argument with "but you can now modify your units". Well gee, THANX. I didn't give a shit about creating various units to do various shit because they looked different and had different stats. They were COMPLEX.

This mod got streamlined bad and it's a fucking sad sight.
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CHIMAS

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brazil
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:57 pm    Post subject:  
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Nah, easy.
Things will get better and many of the changes done so far were to adapt to a new situation. Perhaps we should compare Complex10 to Complex55, and then compare 55 to 744, for example.
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Oni

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czechrepublic
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:15 am    Post subject:  
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copyrights, half of the content has been removed due to copyrights because these ships has been from other mods.
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Battlemaster

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latvia
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:09 pm    Post subject:  Re: This is not complex anymore
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deadlynerd wrote:



-where did all the fucking ships go?
--where are my artillery frigates?
--where are my battleships?
--where the hell is the dreadnaught? oh right, the Grinder... IT'S NOT A DREAD
--WHERE.THE......ARE.CRUISERS.
-unit caps are a joke


While I also find, that Complex 10 has definatly smaller content, than Complex 9.1, I'm more than satisfied with first's one quality.

Yeah, complex 10 has less numbers of models, but all of them has great quality and most of them are pretty usefull. Imo, let's have +3 more new ship models with greater quality, than +8 more, with lesser quality, poor balance, and increased release time of mod in general. Like Vgr drd. No offence to anyone who liked it and to those who made it, but it was kinda ugly one. Vgr battleship was sweeter.
Same goes to Btl arc. It looked more or less cool, but wasn't much of a punching bag.
2 BCs + 3Dst(+Guardian against Nuke) could eat that Ark.

Also, it's just a first public release of new mod which is nearly "clean sheet design". More models are to come, just be more patient.

Just small questing to Complex team.
Are those ships like Vgr Ion cruiser/Btl Carrier/Art Cruiser/Light Carrier. Are they they imported or made by your team? If they are imported, I must say, they have a very good quality.
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Beghins

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italy
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:00 pm    Post subject:  
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Complex 10 in not Complex 91, t's a new game in a new engine, it must be compared with HWRM not to previous version of Complex.
You should focus on what have been improved respect HWRM, and I think it's pretty evident, also you should focus on what will jump in in next months.
If you like it, pledge and help us to take it ahead, if you don't like it don't use it and I understand your position. But we don't need cosmic pessimism in this phase and in general, thank you.

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lazer72

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uk
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:16 pm    Post subject:  
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You have to research unit cap upgrades
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Alewx

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germany
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:12 pm    Post subject:  
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Beghins wrote:
Complex 10 in not Complex 91, t's a new game in a new engine, it must be compared with HWRM not to previous version of Complex.
You should focus on what have been improved respect HWRM, and I think it's pretty evident, also you should focus on what will jump in in next months.
If you like it, pledge and help us to take it ahead, if you don't like it don't use it and I understand your position. But we don't need cosmic pessimism in this phase and in general, thank you.


Then you should really consider a renaming of it to complex remastered, instead of 10, as this indicates a progression from 9.x.

I just miss crew management, and larger maps^^, and an AI Option for dummy, so you can get used to everything. Also starting option for the rank is missing adding that would really help me a lot with all the new handling.

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Nieciekawy

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poland
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:08 pm    Post subject:  
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meh if u want use to actual gameplay then pick 1 AI easy enemy and 1 AI easy ally and you with one team then just try to figure out how to do things fast coz AI is hard xD and "-optimization is non existent
--wanna play 3 AIs? good luck at 16fps once they start shitting out corvettes and fighters in 100s " sorry to say that ur PC is POTATO or something... i played with AI's with many ships and nothing was cutting down my FPS :O i can say it is better optimization than on HW classic coz of improved game engine. I am waiting for more content to come Smile Thanks Beghins for Your work! Have nice time with Complex10!

P.S: Beghins is there a possibility to add more "peace time"? like 30 min or 40min? Smile
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CHIMAS

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brazil
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:13 pm    Post subject:  
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Lagging is not affecting potatoes only. This has happened bafore, we have to wait for better and cleaner code.
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ALC

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:11 am    Post subject:  
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We need to consider also that Complex 10 is a work in progress. There is a lot still to be added. The Complex mod has always evolved with new versions.
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Raz0rd

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:47 pm    Post subject:  
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Then only thing i want as optional would be Craft fuel and Cap ship power.

Honestly i have no wish to micro manage a fleet of 50 ships of all types and some of them to go puff just because they have no fuel etc.

Just make fuel and ship energy enabled/disabled in game rules if possible.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:39 pm    Post subject:  
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@Raz0rd
A suggestion of a 'simplex' game play mode in Complex Smile

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Imglidinhere

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usa
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:07 am    Post subject:  
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Nieciekawy wrote:
meh if u want use to actual gameplay then pick 1 AI easy enemy and 1 AI easy ally and you with one team then just try to figure out how to do things fast coz AI is hard xD and "-optimization is non existent
--wanna play 3 AIs? good luck at 16fps once they start shitting out corvettes and fighters in 100s " sorry to say that ur PC is POTATO or something... i played with AI's with many ships and nothing was cutting down my FPS :O i can say it is better optimization than on HW classic coz of improved game engine. I am waiting for more content to come Smile Thanks Beghins for Your work! Have nice time with Complex10!

P.S: Beghins is there a possibility to add more "peace time"? like 30 min or 40min? Smile


So we all have to dole out a couple thousand for a PC that can run a FREE MODIFICATION of a game we already own? I'm sorry, what part of that makes sense?

Besides, to say that you need a beast of a PC to run HWRM isn't true. You can get by with 2 generation old tech by this point and be FINE. I'm using a 960M and it does very well. However I do understand the point that Complex 10 feels like a massive downgrade from 9.1 and I feel that it's a little... underwhelming. It's very stable and I enjoy the overall customization of individual units... but I've got a few points that irk me away from 10 and want to go back to 9.1 for now:

- Fighter/Corvette Squads: Where the hell did these go? I'm playing Homeworld 2 Remastered. I want my squads back. I didn't spend 500 RUs for a single ship here.

- Durability: I get that ships seemed a little flimsy, but when fights take SO LONG that the reinforcements from CPUs arrive before the previous battle ended, it gets annoying that I can never recover. Anti-fighter/Corvette/frigate weaponry seems to be exceedingly lacking for their jobs. I mean, it's almost laughable in most cases.

- Customization: It's tedious to constantly have to manage all the modules on every one of your ships at any given time. I get you can customize one design and then save it and apply it to any number of ships... but that alone is kinda silly that your destroyer doesn't leave the production cycle WITH ANY GUNS READY TO FIGHT. It's grossly annoying to have to prepare every single turret literal in-game MINUTES before a fight. If I build a battlecruiser, I really dont want to have to deal with building everything. At least in Complex 9.1 you didn't have to worry about too much building a heavy capital class ship. If you built a battleship, it could strike at anything from range without issue indefinitely and I liked that, especially if you were hard-pressed for cash at that moment.

- UI: I hate the Remastered version's UI changes. I literally cannot stand it. I only deal with it because of the fact that I HAVE to in order to enjoy what Homeworld has to offer. It's gross, unintuitive and the controls are ALL DIFFERENT. I get the game has more fuctionality to offer, but at least get rid of the WASD keys panning the screen around. If someone is trying to play this game without a mouse IN 2017 then they need to LEAVE the PC community behind and go back to consoles. Like... I know it sounds silly to say that I'm angry over pressing S and my ships not stopping, but it's infuriating to know that the same key that's been used to halt ships from moving is now Control+S for some freaking reason. It disrupts gameplay when someone has to go back in and relearn the new controls and it's off-putting.
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Masternode

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poland
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:44 pm    Post subject:  
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Imglidinhere wrote:
...snip...
I know it sounds silly to say that I'm angry over pressing S and my ships not stopping, but it's infuriating to know that the same key that's been used to halt ships from moving is now Control+S for some freaking reason. It disrupts gameplay when someone has to go back in and relearn the new controls and it's off-putting.


Man, you know that you can rearrange the key-controls in option, don't you?
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