Homeworld 2 Complex

General - Amalgamating Complex 9.1 & Warlords 0.60

Jelrak - Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:21 am
Post subject: Amalgamating Complex 9.1 & Warlords 0.60
I currently find Complex to be so far my favorite mod...so much so that I simply cannot bring myself to fully commit to playing any other...

So my solution is to merge some of the other mods I have enjoyed in the past into this fine product.

I will be beginning with the marriage of Complex with Warlords...using the stability of Complex with all of its current functions and ships, while adding some or all of the ships and effects from Warlords. These may be included merely as a separate race(s), but I feel more inclined to provide them as alternative options on the research tree. In this way each game might have with it a different flavor as different styles of ships are researched...but balancing issues are going to be very interesting...

Ideally I would appreciate including the factories to build these specific ships as new subsystem platforms surrounding the MS, but we shall see how ambitious I will get. For now I have just finished amalgamating the weapons and ships, and will begin populating the already wonderfully full tech tree with even more branches...
ALC - Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:50 pm
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I'd be happy to test that out—a Stardestroyer in Complex would be fun!
Jelrak - Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:09 pm
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Once I have things a bit more to my liking I will definitely let you do so ALC.

Right now it has just been interesting to see the interaction among the different ship styles...currently the Imperial forces are too powerful for the Vaygr because of their unique armour. I am currently working on fixing this.

I am also pondering the proper implementation of these ships. I would like them to work as seamlessly as possible with the rest of the Complex universe and so imagine them as different technological achievements arrived to allow for such different looks. For this reason they will not generally have Star Wars-like names, but will be assigned to different Homeworld races.

I would ideally like them to be made in either stationary or mobile factories that must choose to specialize in certain series or styles that would then lock out the other options (because otherwise some of us might be tempted to get carried away). I am trying to decide if simply designating specific carriers to do the job (and allowing each category of ships to be a subsystem) would work well enough.

So for example the Light Carrier could be able only to produce Fighters, but it could provide only 2 or 3 styles (there are currently 7 or 8 different styles).

The Regular Carrier could only make Corvettes, but again only a handful of styles, etc.

The Battle Carrier would be assigned the task of Frigates, etc.

The research tree would then provide the different chassis as desired, but at a lower research cost and time to allow that a specific factory (or factory ship) is also required, as well as a subsystem specific to that model.

The advantage of this is that the tools are already at hand to do this. It also better justifies each successive carrier as necessary for continued use as the game progresses.

The disadvantage is that some of the current strategy and purpose of existing carriers will get altered...and I had not wished to alter much of the current dynamic, but more just add to what was already in play...

Alternately it might be better to make the factories stationary. This would result in a more centralized economy with fixed targets to shut down the enemy's ability to build...but it would also require either making new factory-type buildings or somehow modify existing platforms to serve the same role (eg. the crew platform could act as a fighter factory). Certainly I could make use of the existing ones provided in Warlords, but these do not strike me as particularly compatible with Complex visuals for some reason. Possibly a solution would be to build different types of Shipyards since that is basically what those are for, but they seem somewhat large for mere fighters and corvettes...they also take up a fair bit of space.

As I have exactly zero interest and talent in creating new art it will be one of these options (or a combination most likely).

Currently I am leaning towards modifying the Light, Regular, Fleet, and Battle Carriers to mfg Fighters, Corvettes, Heavy Corvettes and Frigates respectively, while changing the Shipyard, Battle Shipyard, and Command Shipyards to make Destroyers, Cruisers, and Battle Cruisers.

What I would like to encourage is a wave of specialization...so that a player might conceivably have a purpose for everything in play.

We shall see what happens...

I like to imagine Complex evolving to something of a space economy that has to protect its industries in order to continue to build and maintain its fleet. A game for both the offensive and defensive player...

Well back to work...
ALC - Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:13 pm
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I think stationary factories would be better. You could then use shipyards for them, and lock out various functions using subsystems: either have only one subsystem slot per shipyard, or have a build subsystem that takes up more than one slot, for example.

Myself, I always aim for that fleet of Stradestroyers Very Happy
Jelrak - Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:48 am
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I have been making progress in this project and have been fairly pleased with the results.

Here are the changes so far:

1) An option allows the player to join one of either 4 good empires, 4 neutral, or 4 evil empires through an optional embassies research option.
b) Only a single empire may be joined as allies are mutually exclusive.
c) Allies require no crew, cost less to build, but have higher maintenance costs, longer build times, and lower production cap values.
d) They also require a minimum honour rating to access...
e) A single, non-moveable, production factory building is buildable for each range of ships.
f) Building a frigate production facility prior to researching embassies will block access to the alliance research since the idea is to offer either an option to prolong the game or to simply get on with the task of chasing bigger-better-faster...

2) There are now minimum classes of ships that larger ships are able to attack and maximum classes that smaller ships can attack. This leaves a lot more usefulness for frigates (as they reside neatly in the middle) and allows each ship class to be potentially necessary right to the end. Ships are now divided into 25 classes.

3) Each alliance choice allows access to 3 mercenary groups (out of a global total of 21).
b) Mercenaries are either initial squads of multiple small ships or single ships if larger. They cost more than average both to build and to maintain, but require very low build time and do not take up crew.
c) Mercenary ships are unique and once destroyed cannot be rebuilt.

4) Hiring mercenaries before building the Corvette Facility will provide access to one of 3 types of robotic drone fleets.
b) Drones are faster and more accurate than fighters, but have weaker armor.
c) Drones do not count against crew levels, cost less to build, have lower maintenance, are available in high numbers, but use a slight amount of power and are only effective against Drones, Fighters, Bombers, Missiles, Platforms, Scouts, and Corvettes.

5) Scouts are now the only ship type able to target probes...given they are likely the only ship with equipment sensitive enough to find them.

6) Stations will no longer be capable of hyperspace travel once built--with the exception of the Chimera station.

More to come...!

Note: I will be requiring permission from the authors of Complex, Warlords, FX, Babylon 5, STC, BG, Yaodu, ITOG, Homefront, AFF, Freespace, Stargate, etc. before being able to release this mod on the world at large...I make no attempt to disguise the fact that I have *borrowed* liberally from these and others... Wink
ALC - Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:45 pm
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Good work there! Smile

In terms of balance, have you used Complex as the base, or Warlords. My impression of Warlords was that it still needed balancing—I found it quite dull to play, too easy to win. There were other issues also.

On releasing your mod, the mod community generally allows cross-pollination of mods provided that everyone gets due credit, so I think you should receive a positive response there.
Jelrak - Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:58 pm
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Thank you...!

I am using Complex for the base for the very reasons you have stated. Each ship imported is being rewritten to allow for this. Native ships are also being modified to allow for the greater range of armour present on Warlords ships.

The main adjustments I am making to balancing is simply the limitations mentioned above to help stave off the seeming inevitable drive to produce the largest ship possible from the outset. In this mod there will be a strategic reward for delaying such activity by allowing access to the alternate shipyards.

A few other minor changes in the works:

1) Scouts will be reduced to single ships rather than squads of 3
2) Allied fighters will be squads of 3
3) Native fighters will remain squads of 5
4) Mercenaries will vary
5) Drones will be in squads of 7 - 10
6) In the later game some frigates will be in squads of 3
7) Platforms will not require crew, but will also no longer be able to move after being initially set

I hope the others will be as willing to allow me to play with their toys as you suggest... Wink
Jelrak - Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:36 pm
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Some additional updates:

1) Sentinels will be more automated and so require only a single crew member.
a) I have left the ability for them to move at a slow speed.
2) Battle Arks can now build additional Flagships (usually Motherships), however:
a) The max total number of Flagships is 5
b) Duplicate Flagships are not allowed
c) Must have joined an alliance, negotiated a mercenary contract, or developed a drone factory to be able to build the associated Flagship.
3) Adjusted restrictions so that player must not build a corvette facility before joining an alliance.
4) Adjusted restrictions so that player must not build a frigate facility before developing a drone factory.

The following hierarchies are in place:
1) Join Republic-->Access to Rebel Or Terran Mercenaries-->Access to AISN Drone Factory
2) Join the Empire-->Access to Shinra Mercenaries-->Access to CIS Drone Factory

Balancing the different ships is so far taking up the most time...
ALC - Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:14 am
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...time well spent, as balance is a crucial part.
lazer72 - Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:40 pm
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Well this looks promising
Jelrak - Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:33 am
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v 0.03
1) Light Carriers can now only produce Fighters & Probes
2) Regular Carriers can no longer build stations
3) Fleet Carriers can now build stations
4) Chimera Station can now also build, dock, and hold collectors, controllers, and platforms
5) The Weapon Station can also build Patcher Drones with the appropriate tech upgrade and can dock and hold fighters
6) Shinra fighters have 9 to a squad, but only 1 squad of each type can be built
7) Civilian Station can now build Trade Convoys, Crew Cells, and will be able to build a civilian research station.
Jelrak - Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:19 am
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v 0.04
1) Command Fortresses can no longer self-replicate.
b) Battle Arks are now the only ship able to make Command Fortresses
c) Command Fortresses can no longer use hyper-space.
2) Added Hiigaran Hyperspace Gate Platform
a) Hyperspace Platforms and Chimera Stations are the only means of transporting ships through hyperspace that do not have a hyperspace module onboard.
b) Ships will no longer be able to hyperspace one another with the exception of the Fleet Carrier
c) This is to improve tactics by making the slower speeds of large ships meaningful and to modulate the temptation to jump large ships in and out of battles.
d) The goal is to encourage the use of carriers as the main jumping ships in order to stengthen their purpose.
3) Frigates are now built in squadrons of 2 with the exception of the Defense Field Frigate
4) Platforms can now only move once and then cannot move again. They retain their original crew size.
5) Sentinels are now designated as small, stationary drone-type defense platforms.
6) Emplacements are now designated as large, station-sized defense platforms.
b) Emplacements are only available with an Alliance, and Drone research, but cannot be researched if Destroyer Chassis Tech is already known
c) Emplacements can only be manufactured on Battle Arks
7) Patcher & Defender Drones now require Drone Production research
Jelrak - Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:34 am
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V 0.05
1) Shuttles now manufacture Sentinels and Platforms
2) Sentinel Production requires Advanced Robotics, which requires Drone Production Technology and an Alliance with the Republic, but cannot be researched if Battleship Chassis has already been researched
3) Emplacements are only available with an Empire Alliance, and Drone Production, but cannot be researched if Battleship Chassis has already been researched
4) Light Shuttle is now a drone production ship. It requires Drone Production research
5) Juggernauts are now large drone ships. They require Drone Production research.
6) Patcher Drones are now in squadrons of 3
7) Hiigaran Ship Updates Complete
Jelrak - Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:42 am
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As anticipated, balancing these two mods has been quite a challenge.

Current progress:
1) Armour Penetration

Designing an algorithm to blend the two disparate armour lists is nearing completion.

As Warlords contains 22 different armour families (plus an additional 16 shield classes that thankfully do not appear to be in use), compared to less than half that many for Complex, allowing consistent behavior from both weapons systems is a fairly lengthy process. Even using a formulaic approach, it must yet allow sufficient flexibility to provide for weapons specifically designed against given armour types to work as intended.

The necessary result is that one must clearly adopt the standards of the other. As Warlords has a greater range of potential flexibility I will have Complex assume its armour classes. Obviously this will be a lengthy process that will require thoughtful changes to each weapon currently in use (of which there are between 250 - 600 depending on the number of discovered duplicate effects).

2) Weapon Accuracy

Here is a bit of a difficulty as I was hoping to create a precise ratio between the size of the ship shooting versus the size of the ship being shot. Each step away from parity should yield a corresponding increase/decrease in accuracy.

The issue with this is, naturally enough, each weapon is not necessarily exclusive to each ship size and the accuracy rating appears to be inscribed in the weapon file rather than in the ship file. The question at present is if there is a potential override in the ship file that I have overlooked? If so this would certainly make things much simpler. If not, I will potentially need to have multiple weapon files of the same type, but reserved for the use of different ship classes...

3) Attack defaults.

Currently Warlords and Complex have slightly different ship families. As a result I have blended the two into 33 distinct classes that appear to account for every possibility. This shall have consequences to attack patterns so it shall take some time to adjust these values as well as to properly arrange the priority lists.

Yet this is fairly formulaic so I do not anticipate much difficulty.

4) Unit balancing.

I have a very comprehensive table to assist with cost, mfg time, health, and speed balancing so this should be fairly straight-forward. I will be saving this for last as it will be the easiest and most interesting.

5) AI

Writing the script for the AI should be an interesting task. It will take some time to fill out, but it will be a rewarding enough process.

6) Other races.

Currently I have put the majority of effort into ensuring the Hiigarans have a lot of sideways motion in this game to avoid the somewhat repetitive necessity to always build better-stronger-faster before one's opponent performs likewise. Instead I have offered powerful defensive systems to buy time to explore the incredible array of new ships now available.

One consequence of this is that the Vaygr are, and will likely always be, lacking the same scope of options. So as I see it there are currently 3 options available to solve this problem:

Most Balanced Option
1) Eliminate the Vaygr as a playable race and have them merely a faction option of the Hiigaran.
a) This would allow captured ships to perform all normal functions (eg. gaining access to a Vaygr shipyard would allow the player to now build those ships).
b) Less duplication in the files
c) Much, much, much easier balancing as tactics chosen by the player would have a true and real range of options for countering. Currently the greatest potential for upset in this mod is the ability for one player to build into the SSDs and mop up the Vaygr at some point. The solutions thus far have been to price them beyond range and to provide the Vaygr with superior numbers (or as a potential wave of reinforcements when the technology comes available).

Most Interesting Option
2) Eliminate all player races
a) In this scenario the players each begin with a Tannis-level shipyard and must make a one-time choice of the flagship they would like to use for the remainder of the game. No other flagships will be allowed to be built (until the Battle Ark comes into play, perhaps?).
b) This is currently very interesting as a concept, though it does pose some challenges of its own vis-a-vis the tech tree. For the player would still essentially be Hiigaran, but merely robbed of all Hiigaran normal roads of progress. The tech tree would require a great deal of modifying to allow for all of the alternative paths (which would be interesting to do, but take an extensive amount of time).

Most Pragmatic Option
3) Leave Vaygr as the second race, but provide it with increasing waves of reinforcements potentially triggered at certain tech levels.
a) This has the advantage of being potentially the simplest option, but it also seems as though it would be the least interesting.

Before I engage in a wholesale changing of the weapons and ships files it would be incredibly important to have made a decision on the above. Currently I am leaning towards either option 1 or 2, but am open to suggestions...


At any rate once these very arduous parts are complete I anticipate this mod will be able to absorb nearly any other ship from any other mod with a minimal amount of difficulty given that the tools and processes will be in place.

We shall see how long this takes...!
Jelrak - Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:03 am
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1) Penetration Algorithm complete
2) Accuracy Algorithm complete
Jelrak - Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:58 am
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V 0.06
1) Armour classes now expanded to 33 categories allowing for maximum flexibility.
2) Fighters now broken into 5 groups: Drones, Scouts, Fighters, Bombers, Elite
To gain better tactical control of fleets:
a) Bombers will no longer engage anything smaller than a frigate
b) Drones will not engage ships larger than Corvettes
c) Scouts will not engage anything larger than fighters with the exception of emp blasts
d) Fighters will not engage anything larger than a frigate
e) Elite will not engage anything larger than a heavy frigate
3) Mercenary Support Flagship now available to be built by Battle Ark
4) Regular Carrier can build Elite Fighters instead of regular
a) Elite Fighters are restricted to 3 squads or between 3 - 9 fighters each
ALC - Sat Feb 27, 2016 1:16 am
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You are making great progress.
How close are you to a testable (for us!) release?
Jelrak - Sat Feb 27, 2016 5:10 am
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Thank you...I am glad to be assured there is still interest...!

It depends on you guys really. I am doing it in steps so that it is essentially playable at any time, but no real effort has yet gone into balancing. I have certainly tested each ship as imported, but it is time-consuming to do this to any great depth so play-testers might really be a valuable source of criticism to free me up to simply implementing the changes.

Currently I am focusing on importing the smaller ships first, but with the introduction of the Mercenary docking station I will be able to begin testing out some frigates and larger ships as well.

I have mostly put these off before now because I am trying to decide how best to introduce them via the tech tree. As you probably realize the whole thrust of this effort is to provide players (especially those who play defensively) some alternatives to feeling pressured to reach for the biggest ships right away. This mod will let a player do it that way for certain, but it punishes them by removing other ships that might have ultimately proven even more powerful in the long-end game (assuming a player reaches that far). The secondary goal is to even further expand the 'world' aspect of this game so that one can build up a tidy little civilization over which one must serve as protector.

The key here now is to remain true enough to the original intent without accidentally triggering an entirely different type of arms' race. So the larger ships need a bit of a push further up the tree and a reason why they might be good supplements to the rest of the fleet. One thing I would really not want is to have players forget about the main ships in the game already. The new ships are supposed to be limited supplements that either cost more in time or RUs to build or are much weaker or more restricted in quantity than their counterparts. So of course they cannot suddenly offer too large an advantage by then being available much sooner than comparable Hiigaran ships, while they also cannot come in play too far afterwards because then they might have little reason to be researched at such a stage. Yet I equally do not necessarily wish to add too many new tech items so as to make this a game about RUs being spent in constant research. So there is a much simpler balance with fighters in this respect than with frigates.

I have to think about that. I am certainly open to ideas here as well. In fact suggestions about any other aspect of game play that might need a bit of adjusting would be something I would welcome. I have a list of implementations I am slowly working through (such as eventually automating the drone carrier to build its own replacement drones based on a formula selected by the player, etc.).

I also still have to import the Empire and Republic's larger shipyards (I have the 3 fighter/corvette ones in-game, but there are 5 more to go), so access to anything larger than a fighter is currently disabled.

Now it should also be noted that I have permission from Eville Jedi to use his assets for 'personal' use so I suspect I will be restricted to releasing this to only a select few and that those cannot pass it on very far from there. That is mostly why I am keeping any discussion of it to this site only. I will probably only pass it off to those who ask for it by PM here. Maybe I can get him to allow a wider audience after I let him try it out...? Wink

We shall see...! Thank you for your continued interest.
Jelrak - Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:41 pm
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V 0.061
1) Solution to introduction of larger Mercenary ships: they are now brought into play with the researching/Production of similarly sized Hiigaran ships.
2) Shinra Carrier implemented. It enables the hiring of additional Shinra Fighters (raising the limit from 1 squadron to 3)
3) Shinra Heavy Ion Frigate implemented as a squadron of 2
b) Shinra Heavy Missile Frigate implemented as a squadron of 1
4) Shinra Destroyer implemented
5) Shinra Dreadnaught implemented
6) Tanis Shipyard now builds all flagships

V 0.062
1) Tanis Shipyard now builds Dreadnaughts
2) Command Shipyard now builds:
a) Tanis Shipyard
b) Vortex
c) Battleships
d) HeavyCruisers
e) Battle Station
3) Changed heirarchy of shipyards & carriers
4) Completed implementing Shinra Mercenaries
5) Implemented Empire & Republic Destroyer and Cruiser Shipyards
Jelrak - Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:16 pm
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V 0.063
1) Playing with Alliances, Mercenaries, Drones, and Androids is now an initial option in the research queue
2) Implemented new Dreadnaught classes: Heavy, Battle, & War respectively.
3) Implemented new Heavy Battle Station
4) Implemented Death Star construction
ALC - Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:37 pm
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Re 4) above...
...er isn't the Death Star a bit heavy going!

I do remember it took ages to save up enough RUs to build a superstardestroyer, so long that there were no significant enemy vessels left to use it against by the time I deployed it. Interesting from an academic point of view though.
Jelrak - Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:51 am
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Yes. I included it only for completeness, given it was possible to do, but one does first need to essentially complete almost all research...really simply a tease... Wink

I did try one and it was able to destroy the enemy Mothership in one shot about 2 minutes into the game so I made it so that it was unable to target anything smaller than a Dreadnaught...the Mothership is classed just below that size level so should be safe Wink
Jelrak - Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:01 am
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V 0.064
1) Empire ships complete
2) Republic ships complete
3) Rebel ships complete
4) CIS ships complete
5) Splitting Empire into 5 factions to reduce potency
6) Splitting Republic into 3 factions
7) Splitting Rebels into 3 factions
8 ) Trade Groups Implemented
a) Trade Groups provide access to Android ships
9) Shinra divideded into Shinra & EF
Jelrak - Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:58 am
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V 0.065
1) Removed automatic health regeneration for ships. Added support ships instead.
2) Factions implemented to provide various bonuses based on faction chosen:
a) Republic, Fifth Order: focus is speed; increased mfg rate for ships; ships have greater speed
b) Republic, Old Republic: focus is force; increased ship attack strength; access to Mandator Super Dreadnaught
c) Republic, Golden Pillar: focus is defense; ships cost less; ships have more health
d) Empire, Black Hand: focus is speed--accesses faster ship building; access to Eclipse Super Dreadnaught
e) Empire, Dark Fleet: focus is power--accesses more powerful weapons; access to Vengeance Super Dreadnaught
f) Empire, Core: focus is defense--accesses higher ship health; access to Death Star!
g) Empire, Fire Branch: focus is efficiency--accesses lower costing ships; access to Sovereign Super Dreadnaught
h) Empire, Overlords: focus is persistence--accesses increased ship regeneration; access to Executor Super Dreadnaught
Jelrak - Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:55 am
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V 0.066
1) Returned health regeneration for frigates only
2) Added Elite Corvettes
3) EFSF complete
4) Added Gundam Sentinels
ALC - Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:23 pm
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Jelrak wrote:
access to Executor Super Dreadnaught
It would be fun to take this for a spin on a large map, full of enemy fleets and mining installations!
By the time I'd saved up for one in a past game, there was nothing left to kill Sad
Jelrak - Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:46 pm
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I think what I have planned for the SSDs is instead of them taking forever to build they simply will be restricted in terms of what size of vessel they can successfully target. The difficulty of shooting a fly with a cannon comes to mind...

So Dreadnaughts are strong against capital ships and stations, but almost useless against anything smaller than a Destroyer.

This means that racing to pull ahead of the enemy by too great a margin will not necessarily spell instant victory. In fact the entire build progression is a circle...stay ahead of the enemy by a few steps and you will have the advantage so long as they do not opt to head in the opposite direction and return to smaller ships you can no longer target...!

The aim is to keep an array of tactics on the table for all types of players. If you wish to play defensively there are structures for that. More offensively? There are an additional 250 ships (at present) to ensure each game is very different as they are not all accessible in each game.

There is now an alignment selection to ensure the player is presented with allies and mercenaries appropriate to their temperament...and some Trade Groups are alignment specific and some are neutral.

We shall see how it all works...I have completed the Gundam Seed ships and will be considering whether to attempt adding in the BSG or Homefront next...
ALC - Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:53 pm
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Sounds good.
We all remember what happened to the flagship SSD at the battle of Endor...
Jelrak - Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:52 pm
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Quite so!

V 0.067
1) Gundam ships complete
2) Bentusi Complete
3) Kadeshi Complete
4) Keepers Complete
Jelrak - Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:03 am
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V 0.068
1) Taiidan Complete
2) Turanic Raiders Complete
3) 1st phase of Vaygr Complete
Jelrak - Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:47 am
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V 0.069
1) Beast Complete
2) B.E.M. Complete
3) Dactain Complete
4) Progenitor Complete
5) Kushan Complete
6) Nores Complete
7) Kadaha Complete
Jelrak - Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:11 am
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V 0.070
1) Porate Complete
2) Thadian Complete
3) Tobanar Complete
4) Ram Complete
5) Radison Complete
6) Sematrik Complete
7) Sotoron Complete
Jelrak - Sat Apr 02, 2016 7:12 am
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V 0.071
1) Czalkir Complete
2) Confederate Complete
3) Tiamite Complete
Jelrak - Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:57 am
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V 0.072
1) Frerrn Compliete
2) Tobari Complete
3) UNH Complete
4) Lizaanj Complete
5) Preramnd Complete
ALC - Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:16 am
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You must be getting close to a beta by now...
Sithicus - Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:12 pm
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Link?
Jelrak - Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:04 pm
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This depends...I have found this something of an interesting hobby and so have somewhat expanded my reach.

Though originally merely a merger of Warlords and Complex, I have since included as many other Mods as I have been able to find (38) so long as their ship styles are unique. This includes failed and incomplete products as well as some fairly mainstream options. As I receive various permissions from the mod developers and artists I include their ships into the game. I have found it a fascinating challenge to make each and every ship useful in a different way...mostly by assigning them to different factions.

The ultimate goal would be to provide a method by which all known ships might be available within a single mod, so if I am to measure progress by this criteria I am about 40% complete.

To ensure this is not an overwhelming experience the player is allowed only 3 - 4 ship types in a given session, with most ship types hosting between 8 - 30 unique ships.

The types are accessed as follows:

The player always begins with the Regular Hiigarans. From there they have the choice of enabling Alliances or forever forfeiting that option.

If Alliances are enabled they are able to choose one of 19 Allies/Allied Factions (6 remain to be implemented).

If Mercenaries are enabled, each allied faction has a relationship with 3 - 9 Mercenary/Civilian Militia groups. Some mercenaries are shared between the ally and its closest neighbor and some are unique to the ally in question. No mercenary groups are shared by more than 2 allies.

There are 53 total mercenary groups, of which 22 remain to be implemented.

If Drones or Androids are enabled then the player has access to one of 7 Trade Groups (2 yet to be implemented), which each offering a different array of automated ships.

So currently the player has 7049 different Ally/Mercenary/Trade Group combinations.

The entire mod has about 2000 unique ships available, but of course only about 80 - 150 can be used in any one game at any one time depending on which combination is chosen...and of course the option remains to simply ignore all of these other branches and to proceed with an only slightly modified version of the original Complex.

So even though the game is technically playable in its current state, in order to arrive at a proper Beta what remains is to finish adding:

22 Mercenary Groups
2 Trade Groups
6 Allies

To refine all weapons files
To adjust some ship Icons (currently the TGAs occupy a lot of disk space)
Correcting all attack tables to place each ship in the exact role for which it was originally intended

To get to Alpha we will need to:
1) Review the AI to ensure it is able to mount a proper response.
2) Balance ships in a general sense.
3) Fine-tune some of the scripting ideas currently on the drawing board
4) Do error checking for each and every ship

Given that I seem to be able to integrate about 4 - 12 groups per week I estimate about another month before this aspect is complete

Refining the weapons files seem to go fairly quickly as I have written a program and algorithm to assist and it is fairly repetitive so I would expect another month there as well.

Correcting all of the Icons is perhaps a bit of a minor detail, but there is a fair amount of bloat in that directory due to possible duplications and multiple formats. I would assess another month for this as well.

Correcting attack tables will be done at the same time as adjusting the weapons files given that the two activities are fairly closely related so no extra time should be needed for this.

So this probably places a proper Beta at some point in July or August.

I have given myself a full year to arrive at the Alpha...

One thing is for certain, however, and that is once I take on a project I do not stop until it is finished.

Equally worth mentioning is that I am always looking for other mods to fill in some space still available so if anyone has a hidden gem I would appreciate having an opportunity to implement it.

The mod is shaping into the collector's addition of all ships and so will host as many as can be found.
Jelrak - Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:18 pm
Post subject:
When this is a bit further along I will be supplying a link to the download by PM only. This should ensure a fairly limited release that will remain in keeping with the wishes of some of the owners of the mods from which I have borrowed assets.

Anyone who would like to be notified when this is finished will need to send me a PM. I will then provide you with an access code to the download site later on this summer.
ALC - Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:59 pm
Post subject:
Ambitious!
Do be careful not to overreach!
Mod dev sites are littered with projects that kept expanding, and expanding (etc) and ended up not being finished... Shocked
Jelrak - Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:30 pm
Post subject:
I have read the progress charted by a lot of those mods and have been wary not to follow the same path. This is why I first wrote code to assist me in doing what I needed to do so that at this point it is mainly a matter of pacing...
ALC - Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:09 pm
Post subject:
Good planning, makes for successful outcomes Very Happy
Jelrak - Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:37 pm
Post subject:
I certainly hope so...!
Jelrak - Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:15 am
Post subject:
V 0.073
1) Nassar Complete
2) AISN Complete
3) USN Complete
4) Earth Alliance Complete
5) Minbari Complete
6) Vorlon Complete
7) Shadow Complete
8) Cylons Complete
Jelrak - Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:32 am
Post subject:
V 0.074
1) Galactica Complete
2) Draconian Complete
3) Kapaduci Complete
4) Keprasori Complete
5) Holoit Complete
Jelrak - Sun May 01, 2016 10:30 am
Post subject:
V 0.075
1) Shivan Complete
2) Terrans Complete
3) Vasudan Complete
4) Covenant Complete
5) UNSC Complete
Jelrak - Tue May 24, 2016 6:11 am
Post subject:
V 0.076
1) Cerberus Complete
2) Council Complete
3) Geth Complete
4) Reaper Complete
5) Pirates Complete
Jelrak - Thu May 26, 2016 6:09 am
Post subject:
V 0.077
1) Vaygr Complete
2) Vaynor Complete
3) Grendel Complete
4) Borg Complete
5) Breen Complete
6) Carron Complete
7) Dominion Complete
8) Ferrel Complete
9) Federation Complete
10) Andoran Complete
11) Tellarite Complete
12) Vulcan Complete
Jelrak - Sun May 29, 2016 8:03 am
Post subject:
V 0.078

1) Union Complete
2) Entente Complete
3) Coalition Complete
4) Clan Complete
5) Junta Complete
6) Klingon Complete
7) Block Complete

All Allies Complete,
All Factions Complete,
12 Mercenaries Remaining,
All Trade Groups Complete
Current Ship Total: 1743 Implemented, ~400 Remaining
lazer72 - Mon May 30, 2016 12:31 am
Post subject:
Nice work!!
Jelrak - Mon May 30, 2016 5:34 am
Post subject:
Thank you kindly... Smile
ALC - Mon May 30, 2016 1:50 pm
Post subject:
Must be getting close to a playable beta...
Jelrak - Tue May 31, 2016 2:44 am
Post subject:
Yes, very close...likely 2 weeks.
Jelrak - Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:46 am
Post subject:
V 0.079
1 ) Combine Complete
2 ) Cabal Complete
3 ) Romulan Complete
4 ) Division Complete
5 ) United Front Complete
6 ) Rastan Complete
7 ) Goa'uld Complete
8 ) Tau'ri Complete
lazer72 - Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:12 am
Post subject:
Very good news. I would like to see what all this work has accomplished
Jelrak - Sat Jun 04, 2016 12:54 pm
Post subject:
V 0.080
1) Wraith Complete
2) Vong Complete
3) Alos Complete
4) Beta Complete
5) Buskamin Complete
6) Modu Complete
7) Warship Class Added

2 Mercenary Groups remaining...though I may add an additional one to balance the scales (currently there are 40 Dark Mercenaries and 39 Light). This might be achieved by simply re-allocating some Modu and Alos ships...unless another mod is found in the meantime...!
ALC - Sat Jun 04, 2016 6:22 pm
Post subject:
Jelrak wrote:
Yes, very close...likely 2 weeks.
2 complex weeks, or two standard weeks Wink
Nice work—this mod is shaping up very impressively.
Jelrak - Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:00 pm
Post subject:
Haha...Complex Weeks! Wink

1) Stone Complete
2) Yao Complete

Next phase: adjusting weapons & accuracy...
Jelrak - Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:36 am
Post subject:
I have questions since I am at a point where I am able to change a few things...

Originally I had decided to make all mercenary groups mutually exclusive, but there is a small voice in the back of my head that is suggesting the likely consequence of this is some groups never seeing the light of day. Currently to try all Alliance/Merc/Trade Group combinations a player would need to play 10,241 times...

Now that type of spectacular unique playing index has its advantages, but I am wondering if players would prefer instead a more flexible landscape.

For example, I could merely provide the option of building the appropriate mercenary bases rather than making this a research item to gain access, but limit the player to only having 1, or 2, or 3, or unlimited bases? The number could depend on the user's unit-cap setting.

In such a way a player could theoretically destroy a given base in order to access another (if playing with low unit caps).

The possible consequence to this is a wider field of play with a lesser need to fully balance each and every race/group as their inherent pros and cons are already built-in.

This might provide for a greater sense of control and reduce the potential of a player regretting his/her initial choices and thereby feeling they have wasted a playing session. Further, it might allow for a bit more risk in terms of choosing a given race that otherwise might not be chosen for fear of the above...or it might allow a player to use a given mercenary group for the beginning of the game due to lower building costs, but then upgrade to a more advanced group later on.

There are currently groups with only a handful of ship designs versus others that have almost 10 times as many so a desire for change might be optimal in some cases...

Yet there is a potentially negative consequence to this as well.

One of the aspects that Complex has admirably accomplished is the use of crew to attempt to offset a player's natural tendency to simply build large ships early on. Crew allows for a great degree of strategic play and are naturally limiting. This is why I initially restricted Alliances and Mercenaries in such a way as to prevent the player from ignoring all of the original units in favor of what might otherwise be considered a nearly unlimited supply of ships (currently ~2100 models). This is something I do not want as I feel it might put too much pressure on players to simply build as many ships as possible in a constant race to keep up with their opponents. Limitations in crew and race access greatly reduce this pressure.

So a balance clearly must be struck between access and limits, but as every player is different, and I have only limited time, I would like to attempt to resolve this issue to everyone's satisfaction as neatly as possible.

Some options are as follows:

1) Choose 1 Alliance by research (mutually exclusive), but build mercenary bases related to those allies. (Low Unit Cap = 1 base, Medium = 3, Higher = 6, Highest = 12).

2) Choose Alignment by research (Good, Neutral, Evil), but access Alliances by building Friendship Centers. (Low U/C = 1, Med = 2, High = 3, Highest = 4). Each center would have automatic access to all mercenaries compatible with that ally (typically 3 exclusive + 6 shared = 9). Mercenaries would arrive in the form of civilian ships (non combat).

3) Remain with the research tree only. 1 Ally, 1 Merc, 1 Trade Group per session only.

4) Same as option 3, but with the opportunity of expanding to options 1 or 2 at a later stage in the game through the researching of Advanced Alien Relations or some such.

5) Only provide access to Alliances & Mercenaries if the player has reached a certain honour level and/or has exhausted his/her crew levels?

6) Provide increasing numbers of Allies/Mercs based on a player's honour level (numbers based on unit cap)?

7) A blend of the above?

Cool Something else entirely?

Currently I am leaning towards 7, but now is the time to voice your opinions (either by PM or in this thread).

The suggested limiting of ships is as follows:

For Hiigaran ships: Crew limits. Provide ships at lower cost, but lower crew limits.

For Alliance ships: Provide ships at average cost, but longer build times (as they presumably would require some governmental approval).

Drones/Fighters/Corvettes: Unlimited (except elites: 3)
Frigates: 9 (Each type? Or overall?)
Destroyers/Light Cruisers:3 (Each type? Or overall?)
Cruisers on up: 1 (Each type? Or overall?)

For Mercenary ships: Ships would cost significantly more, but be available much more quickly.

Drones/Fighters/Corvettes: 3 (except elites: 1)
Frigates: 6 (Each type? Or overall?)
Destroyers/Light Cruisers:1 (Each type? Or overall?)
Cruisers on up: 1 (Each type? Or overall?)

For Trade Group ships: Ships cost below average, are available fairly quickly, but have weaker armor than conventional ships.

Drones/Android Fighters/Android Corvettes: Unlimited
Android Frigates: Unlimited
Android Destroyers/Light Cruisers: 6 (Each type? Or overall?)
Android Cruisers on up: 2 (Each type? Or overall?)

The opportunity for input is now while I will be busy adjusting the armour and accuracy ratings...once that is complete I will be doing the above fine-tuning step.

Afterwards I will be working on correcting ship icons.
Jelrak - Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:19 pm
Post subject:
I have opted to arrange the various allies/mercenaries/trade groups as follows:

There is a basic research tree to elect to align with either light or darkness.

The path chosen restricts access to light or dark allies.

Each ally costs a different amount based upon their quantity and quality of ships.

Each ally a player aligns with brings access to their group of 9 mercenaries. Each one of these costs a different amount (again based on ship access and strength).

Each mercenary or ally needs a special base and/or transport ship in order to build. And a player can only have so many of these at a time.

So while a player can now theoretically research access to all allies and all mercenaries in their alignment (albeit at a fair cost), they can only truly access a few at a time and an enemy can always destroy their source of these ships. So in this way there is some flexibility and balance all at once.

Currently I am still refining the weapons and attack orders. This has taken some additional time as I discovered some flaws in my initial formulas and had to essentially start over.

Hopefully everyone is enjoying the patched Remastered edition and no one is waiting in any great anticipation for this work in progress. Smile
ALC - Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:35 pm
Post subject:
Jelrak wrote:
... and no one is waiting in any great anticipation for this work in progress. Smile
Well, now that you mention it...
No worries, it'll be done when it's done. We shall wait.
Jelrak - Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:53 am
Post subject:
ALC wrote:
Jelrak wrote:
... and no one is waiting in any great anticipation for this work in progress. Smile
Well, now that you mention it...
No worries, it'll be done when it's done. We shall wait.


Thank you for your patience...I hope to have the weapons sorted out soon...then all that will remain will be correcting the icons, but I should be able to do that during the play-testing phase.
ALC - Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:10 am
Post subject:
Jelrak wrote:
...play-testing phase.
A good phrase to hear!
Jelrak - Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:36 am
Post subject:
Latest update:

1) Extracted and analyzed 5800 weapon files in an attempt to harmonize the penetration and accuracy details.
2) Built formulas to normalize the above
3) Created naming index for all weapons
4) In process of updating all files with formula results (ETC: ~1 month)
5) Extracted and analyzed research tree
6) New research options will be extensive, but mutually exclusive
7) Introduced 11 engine levels
8) Introduced 11 shield types
9) Introduced 9 armor levels
10) Mercenary ships will be unique: anything larger than a corvette will be buildable only once per game--if it is destroyed it cannot be rebuilt
11) Introduced Industrial, Transport, Container, and Passenger ships
12) Introduced War Factories
13) Introduced Science Station and additional research ships
wint - Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:28 pm
Post subject:
Looks like heavy work and i'm will looking into if any playable version aviable.
Good work man , keep it up Smile
Jelrak - Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:26 pm
Post subject:
Thank you!

I am adding aspects of the game together now so a playable version will be 'soon' (the Complex version of 'soon', mind you...)
ALC - Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:27 am
Post subject:
Soon
Sounds good Smile
Jelrak - Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:06 am
Post subject:
V 0.083
1) Trade Convoys can now build and dock defenders and patchers.
2) Introduced Resource Point Base for distant resource operations
a) It comes equipped with larger RU storage capacity and is able to build advanced resource controllers
3) Implemented alternate and mutually exclusive technology branches
a) Advanced Targeting allows the construction of ships with higher accuracy
b) Advance Beam Weapons allows ships to have stronger and more powerful cannons
c) Advanced Missiles is for players more interested in focusing on missiles
d) Advanced Economy improves resource operations and allows trade bases
e) Advanced Efficiency allows the construction of large production facilities for lower costing ships
f) Advanced Shields allows the construction of various shield designs to counter different energy levels
g) Advanced Armour gives access to increased hull thicknesses
h) Advanced Engines provides access to a number of different classes of engines
4) Implemented Ore Mining, Processing, and Smelting
5) Implemented Gas Harvesting, Refining, and Fuel Depots (Depots are merely required for larger ship construction, no refueling is required)
ALC - Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:08 am
Post subject:
Good to see this still going.
Jelrak - Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:26 am
Post subject:
I have be quiet, but work progresses on this daily...it is now quite a bit different than I had originally intended as it has taken on something of an economy-style game. Freighters carry raw materials to processing plants in order to manufacture the alloy necessary for ship production, gas refineries ship product to fusion plants in order to manufacture necessary components for advanced shield systems and weapons systems...yes it has been an unfortunate amount of fun to turn Complex into something even more complex...

I shall not rest until this is complete...
ALC - Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:02 pm
Post subject:
Sounds good. I wait for a playable beta...
azer - Wed May 03, 2017 12:27 pm
Post subject:
I like your idea , I hope to be able to play it Smile
Jelrak - Wed May 03, 2017 6:10 pm
Post subject:
Thank you for your interest

I hope to have a player-ready version released within a few months...I am at this time mostly polishing off some of the rougher edges and aligning all ships so that they may function together in the same universe.

I will update when that is ready
ALC - Sat May 06, 2017 6:55 pm
Post subject:
Nods in encouragement...
Jelrak - Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:15 pm
Post subject:
Quite a lot of updates over the past few months...I tend to spend about 1 to 3 hours a day on this mod so a lot of progress has been made.

1) All Mercenary fleets (about 1100 ships) have been fully incorporated. This means all stats, icons, weapons, bug-fixes, and other sundry details have been updated. Still some fine tuning might be required, but so far most are doing what has been intended
2) About 1/4 of the ~500 allied ships have been implemented
3) The economy frame-work is sketched out and works in principle. The resource operations script is functional.

Remaining:
1) Complete Allied ships (August - September)
2) Incorporate Trade-Group fleet (~175 ships) (October)
3) Finalize economy commerce (October - November)
**3b) Begin play-testing** (October - November)
4) Add Hiigaran upgrades (November)
5) Update all weapons files (~5000 of these, but the process will be mostly automated) (December)
6) Rewrite AI scripts (January - February)
7) Review and complete play-testing

Currently the game loads fairly quickly even with over 1400 ships in the build file...we shall see how the remaining ~600 affect performance
ALC - Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:44 pm
Post subject:
Sounds good.
Hmm, watch out you don't overload it with too many objects, it might put too much of a drag on performance!
Jelrak - Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:13 am
Post subject:
Testing so far is not showing any significant drag on performance, but I am keeping an eye on the red line...
ALC - Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:11 am
Post subject:
Sounds good. You may find that performance lag won't be an issue, in view of the capabilities of modern systems compared to those of the computers of a few years ago, when the game was first designed.

Still looking forward to a beta to test.
What hardware and OS are you ruiing your mod on, btw?
Jelrak - Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:06 am
Post subject:
Windows 10

Graphics Card: NVIDIA 1070
Processor: Intel i7-7700, 3.6 GHz

Although it also runs on my laptop, which is over 5 years old and 2.4 GHz
ALC - Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:03 am
Post subject:
Performance lag may well not be an issue at all then Smile HW is quite forgiving in those terms. Looking good.
Is the old laptop running XP by any chance?
Jelrak - Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:09 pm
Post subject:
No, Windows 8
Jelrak - Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:07 am
Post subject:
Latest update:

1) All allied ships have been implemented to the same standard as the Mercenaries

Remaining:
1) Incorporate Trade-Group fleet (~175 ships) (September)
2) Finalize economy commerce (October - November)
**2b) Begin play-testing** (October - November)
3) Add Hiigaran upgrades (November)
4) Update all weapons files (~5000 of these, but the process will be mostly automated) (December)
5) Rewrite AI scripts (January - February)
6) Review and complete play-testing

Currently the game loads fairly quickly even with over 1800 ships in the build file.
ALC - Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:52 pm
Post subject:
...heh, beware of setting deadlines for yourself Wink

The file must be getting quite big now.
Jelrak - Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:16 am
Post subject:
Yes, it now has its very own center of gravity around which I appear to orbit!
Jelrak - Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:22 pm
Post subject:
Here is a basic outline of the new re-vamped economy as it currently exists...

Only registered users can see links on this board!
Get registred or enter the forums!

ALC - Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:47 pm
Post subject:
Lots of stations - we'll need big maps with lots of space and many resources.
Jelrak - Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:01 pm
Post subject:
To some extent...but keep in mind many of these stations are mutually exclusive so it may not be quite as cluttered as may first appear. There are seven focus options a player may choose and so essentially only about that fraction of these will be in the hands of a single player (and even many of these are progressive stations, thereby requiring only one of a given series to actually be present)...and only a practical few might be capable of reaching the end of any given tree.

A lot of resources will be required, but there are also other functions in the economy that will assist in procuring the needed RUs. At least this is the hope
ALC - Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:49 pm
Post subject:
Sounds, intricate - and a lot of work too.
Jelrak - Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:27 pm
Post subject:
Latest update:

1) Economy is now basically complete

Remaining:
1) Incorporate Trade-Group fleet (~175 ships) (October)
2) Begin play-testing** (November)
3) Add Hiigaran upgrades (November)
4) Update all weapons files (~5000 of these, but the process will be mostly automated) (December)
5) Rewrite AI scripts (January - February)
6) Review and complete play-testing
ALC - Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:32 pm
Post subject:
Nicely done there.

2) Sounds good. Hopefully it will all hang together smoothly.
Jelrak - Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:08 pm
Post subject:
Latest update:

1) Trade-Group fleet (~175 ships) complete
2) Shaved 1 GB off memory load (by removing 1000 non-buildable spawn-only-mercenary ships from the build list)

Remaining:
1) Add Hiigaran upgrades (November)
2) Begin play-testing** (November)
3) Solve save-game limitation (November)
4) Refine resourcing operations (November)
5) Update all weapons files (~5000 of these, but the process will be mostly automated) (December)
6) Rewrite AI scripts (January - February)
7) Review and complete play-testing

Presently the key consideration is to continue to manage the length of the build file, as currently it exceeds the ability of the game to reload it from a saved game state. It has been brought down from 79,000 lines to 42,000, but must be further reduced to somewhere in the vicinity of 17,000 in order to be fully functional.

This means either:
1) stripping most detailed information from all ships and instead providing such in a separate document, <--the obvious consequence being some added complication in identifying ships from a list and applying the information back to the game during a potentially fast-paced building cycle

2) removing the ability to show ships that cannot yet be built while they require crew and officers (as these require duplicate entries), <--the difficulty being the potential lack of awareness on the part of the player as to what is available to build and/or being unable to determine why such ships cannot be constructed or where such ships may later be found. Documentation would be required to detail all of this information that would otherwise be more intuitively available

3) reducing certain potential near-redundancies, <--naturally there are some ships whose roles somewhat overlap, but the elimination of these would unlikely be sufficient to achieve the targeted number of lines

4) reducing the quantity of subsystems,

5) reducing the research tree,

6) converting Allied and/or Trade Group ships to be non-buildable, <--using a system similar to that of mercenaries, this would remove these ships from the player's discretionary build-list, but would equally reduce the distinction among these three types of forces (currently mercenaries are available for purchase by deploying beacons to summon the entire fleet rather than individual ships; while allies are purchasable in limited numbers at specific bases; and trade groups deal specifically with an exchange system for trade goods.

7) automate a significant portion of the resourcing operations in order to remove them from the build queue, <-- This would potentially eliminate about 100 ships, but would also reduce some element of flexibility on the part of the player to determine which types of resources upon which to concentrate

8) or some combination of the above

9) or disregard the ability to save games entirely
ALC - Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:38 pm
Post subject:
You are certainly pushing the limits of the game here, I think - reminds me of my map-making days when I did the same, maxing out the size limits of the maps.

The project is coming along nicely.

I haven’t had time to do a detailed reply until now (have spare 20 mins).

My reflections on the options:
1) A good option. A powerful computer should be able to handle this without issue.
2) Also good option, but you would definitely need the make the player read the ReadMe file Wink
3) Not so good, especially if it doesn’t deliver the solution.
4) No. I would avoid this unless a last resort.
5) A good option. Trimming the research tree would be a viable option that should not impinge too much on player enjoyment.
6) I would only do this if it delivered the solution in one go, as it might affect balance, and would significantly affect the gameplay.
7) This is a good option to consider as it can be combined with some of the other options to deliver the solution. a small level of automation might not be too bad in terms of gameplay.
Cool Heh Very Happy Yes. the way to go.
9) I think we need the ability to save games, as it provides a shield against crashes. Picture this, you have been playing solidly for 83.5 hours and have finally constructed your superstardestroyer (a good point to do a save), the game then crashes on you…. URK!

Perhaps you could reduce the overall size of the Trade Group structure by removing some of the ships, or some subsystems from their ships (or both), or simplifying the way in which it operates, if this would deliver some of the saving that is needed.

I would go for achieving the reduction by targeting one area for the major saving (option 2 would work best for me), and filling in a bit from other areas.
Jelrak - Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:52 pm
Post subject:
Thank you for your insights...as always it helps a great deal to get feedback when at a crossroads!

I am currently working on the Hiigaran Upgrades as well as documentation on the functions and various uses of the 2300+ unique ships available in-game. The documentation is helping to reduce the amount of information typically stored in the build queue and should also give indications of where each ship is built so as to allow for both options 1 & 2 to give the line reductions needed. I have also agreed with you that some form of option 7 will help matters.

I had toyed with the idea of pushing this game towards the realm of a 'simulated space railroad' of sorts, in the sense that various ships would be under player control to deliver consists and collect raw materials, but likely such a complication in the background of high-paced battles would be something of a strain.

What I have decided instead is to automate as many of these resource class ships as possible. Currently their pick-up and delivery paths are automated, but now I will also have the building of such ships automated. I will attempt instead to instigate a sort of dispatcher control suite that would allow the player to determine the mix of freighters they would like so as to avoid accidentally selling off excess resources that they player had been saving for later trades.

I am very hopeful that the combination of options 1, 2, and 7 will be sufficient to achieve what is ultimately required and that the completion of the Hiigaran Upgrades will not claim too much space in turn.

Completed:
1) All ship icons completed

Remaining:
1) Complete Hiigaran upgrades (End of November)
2) Complete Documentation (End of November)
3) Refine resourcing operations (November)
4) Solve save-game limitation (November)
5) Update And Refine Research Tree
6) Update all weapons files (~5000 of these, but the process will be mostly automated) (December)
7) Begin play-testing** (December)
8) Update Vaygr stats
9) Rewrite AI scripts and update Class Definitions (January - February)
10) Correct some subsystem icons
11) Review and complete play-testing
ALC - Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:02 pm
Post subject:
Jelrak wrote:
I am very hopeful that the combination of options 1, 2, and 7 will be sufficient to achieve what is ultimately required and that the completion of the Hiigaran Upgrades will not claim too much space in turn.

Sounds very good. The trick is to make sure that further additions won't erode the space gains again! A balancing act.
Jelrak - Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:01 am
Post subject:
Completed:
1) Updated all weapons files

Remaining:
1) Complete Hiigaran upgrades (December)
2) Complete Documentation (December)
3) Refine resourcing operations (December)
4) Solve save-game limitation (December)
5) Update And Refine Research Tree (December-January)
6) Update Vaygr stats (December)
7) Begin play-testing** (January)
8) Rewrite AI scripts and update Class Definitions (January - February)
9) Correct all subsystem icons
10) Review and complete play-testing
11) Correct Selection Limits On All Ships
12) Correct Target Icons, Both In Style And Distance
ALC - Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:13 pm
Post subject:
Lots of December deadlines there, ambitious.
Are all of the ships/races from Warlords complete and balanced with the Hiig/Vayg equivalents?
Jelrak - Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:47 pm
Post subject:
Completed:
1) Solved save-game limitation (December)
2) Hiigaran Bomber upgrades complete

Remaining:
1) Complete Hiigaran upgrades (December-February)
a) Drones (January)
b) Fighters (December)
c) Corvettes (December)
d) Frigates (January)
e) Destroyers (January)
f) Cruisers (February)
g) Carriers (December)
2) Complete documentation (December)
3) Refine resourcing operations (December)
4) Update and Refine Research Tree (December-January)
5) Update Vaygr stats (December)
6) Begin play-testing** (January)
7) Rewrite AI scripts and update Class Definitions (January - February)
8) Correct all subsystem icons
9) Review and complete play-testing
10) Correct Selection Limits On All Ships
11) Correct Tactical Icons, Both In Style And Distance

Yes a lot is slated for December, but most of these tasks are likely only the work of a few days each...although the Hiigaran upgrades are taking a touch longer than anticipated.

Also, no real effort has been made to balance Vaygr with any of the Hiigaran upgrades. Such will have to wait until the AI rewrite as Vaygr will never possess anywhere near the scope of ships and options due to the inherent limitations in this game engine.

It is suggested that this Mod be primarily considered for dueling Hiigaran players for now.

Further, given that the Warlord races are all accessible through the Hiigarans it is not intended that the Hiigarans themselves be balanced against any single one of these beyond the ability to enlist the various factions themselves directly.
ALC - Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:11 pm
Post subject:
Jelrak wrote:
Completed: 1) Solved save-game limitation

Glad to see 1) completed - this one had me slightly concerned as it is a very important feature.

Jelrak wrote:
Further, given that the Warlord races are all accessible through the Hiigarans it is not intended that the Hiigarans themselves be balanced against any single one of these beyond the ability to enlist the various factions themselves directly.
Ah, got it.
Jelrak - Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:03 pm
Post subject:
Completed:
1) Carrier Upgrades
2) Fighter Upgrades

Remaining:
1) Complete Hiigaran upgrades (December-January)
a) Drones (January)
b) Corvettes (December)
c) Frigates (December)
d) Destroyers (January)
e) Cruisers (January)
2) Complete documentation (December)
3) Refine resourcing operations (December)
4) Update and Refine Research Tree (December-January)
5) Update Vaygr stats (December)
6) Begin play-testing** (January)
7) Rewrite AI scripts and update Class Definitions (January - February)
8) Correct all subsystem icons
9) Review and complete play-testing
10) Correct Selection Limits On All Ships
11) Correct Tactical Icons, Both In Style And Distance
12) Update all missile/munitions armour and attack families
Jelrak - Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:19 pm
Post subject:
Completed:
1) Corvette Upgrades
2) Update Vaygr stats

Remaining:
1) Complete Hiigaran upgrades (December-January)
a) Drones (January)
b) Frigates (December)
c) Destroyers (January)
d) Cruisers (January)
2) Complete documentation (December)
3) Refine resourcing operations (December) <--
4) Update and Refine Research Tree (December-January)
5) Begin play-testing** (January)
6) Rewrite AI scripts and update Class Definitions (January - February)
7) Correct all subsystem icons
8) Review and complete play-testing
9) Correct Selection Limits On All Ships
10) Correct Tactical Icons, Both In Style And Distance
11) Update all missile/munitions armour and attack families
12) Update Crew requirements

Current Project: Refine Resourcing Operations

1) Enabling Fleet Manufacturing
--One aspect of choosing the Advanced Production option is the opportunity to mass produce several different fleet batches using resources instead of currency. This will speed up fleet production at certain key facilities.

2) Automating Trade Group Facilities
--Trade Groups currently allow the direct purchase of individual ships from one of 5 chosen Trade Groups in exchange for resources, but the new system will be to instead have these facilities automatically convert resources into ships until either resources are exhausted, the ship limit is reached, or the order is canceled.

3) Automating Resource Operations
--To reduce complexity, this option will enable players to simply choose the overall direction of their resourcing system instead of the current requirement that they build individual ships. The options will be to either:
a) Gather: use the current fleet of resource ships to build up stores of resources for future requirements
b) Trade: use transport ships to trade resources for domestic fleets and/or Trade Group Facilities
c) Sell: make use of the commercial fleet to export resources out of the current sector at current market prices
d) Build: build up the resourcing fleet to increase gathering and resource production speed
ALC - Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:44 pm
Post subject:
Jelrak wrote:
..., the ship limit is reached, ...
hopefully the ship limit will not be too restrictive.
Will there be an option to vary the ship limits at the game set up stage?
Jelrak - Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:30 pm
Post subject:
ALC wrote:
Jelrak wrote:
..., the ship limit is reached, ...
hopefully the ship limit will not be too restrictive.
Will there be an option to vary the ship limits at the game set up stage?


The ship limit is different for each type:

1) Hiigarans are limited by crew on hand
2) Mercenaries are one time buys only (unless the player invests in the Alien Research Framework Station)
3) Allies are limited to 1 to 10 squadrons at a time depending on ship size, but I will probably have the limit related to honor points instead (unless the player has the Espionage station)
4) Trade Groups are limited to the amount of resources available or else the game's hard-coded limit of 250 squadrons

Currently the game set-up only controls the crew limits

Completed:
1) Frigate Upgrades
2) Update Crew requirements

Remaining:
1) Complete Hiigaran upgrades (January)
a) Drones (January)
b) Destroyers (January) <--W.I.P.
c) Cruisers (January)
2) Complete documentation (December)
3) Refine resourcing operations (December) <--W.I.P.
4) Update and Refine Research Tree (January)
5) Begin play-testing** (January)
6) Rewrite AI scripts and update Class Definitions (January - February)
7) Correct all subsystem icons
8) Review and complete play-testing
9) Correct Selection Limits On All Ships
10) Correct Tactical Icons, Both In Style And Distance
11) Update all missile/munitions armour and attack families
ALC - Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:30 am
Post subject:
May i suggest one option to have a very high crew limit? I always had to hack the crew limits when playing on very large maps to allow for enought ships to have an effective gameplay!
Jelrak - Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:24 pm
Post subject:
Yes I have built in an option for maximum crew, but beyond this I have also made it possible to build multiple Crew Stations in addition to the ability to construct an Academy that truly raises crew to a much higher level

Completed:
1) Destroyer Upgrades
2) Light Cruiser Upgrades

Remaining:
1) Complete Hiigaran upgrades (January)
a) Drones (January)
b) Cruisers (January) <--W.I.P.
2) Complete documentation (January)
3) Refine resourcing operations (January) <--W.I.P.
4) Update and Refine Research Tree (January)
5) Begin play-testing** (January)
6) Rewrite AI scripts and update Class Definitions (January - February)
7) Correct all subsystem icons
8) Review and complete play-testing
9) Correct Selection Limits On All Ships (50% Complete)
10) Correct Tactical Icons, Both In Style And Distance (50% Complete)
11) Update all missile/munitions armour and attack families
ALC - Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:31 pm
Post subject:
Jelrak wrote:
...but beyond this I have also made it possible to build multiple Crew Stations in addition to the ability to construct an Academy that truly raises crew to a much higher level
That certainly sounds like a very interesting expansion of the crew concept.
Jelrak - Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:15 am
Post subject:
Completed:
1) Hiigaran Cruiser Upgrades
2) Heavy Cruiser Upgrades
3) Battleship Upgrades

Remaining:
1) Complete Hiigaran upgrades (January)
a) Drones (January)
b) Flagships & Warships (January) <--W.I.P.
c) Dreadnaughts (January)
2) Complete documentation
3) Refine resourcing operations (January) <--W.I.P.
4) Update and Refine Research Tree
5) Begin play-testing** (January)
6) Rewrite AI scripts and update Class Definitions
7) Correct all subsystem icons
8) Review and complete play-testing
9) Correct Selection Limits On All Ships (60% Complete)
10) Correct Tactical Icons, Both In Style And Distance (60% Complete)
11) Update all missile/munitions armour and attack families
12) Complete Advanced Defense Focus (Upgrades)
13) Adjust Ship Regeneration Values
14) Finish Faction & Ship Descriptions
15) Complete Advanced Repair Focus (Upgrades)
16) Complete Advanced Stealth Focus (Upgrades)
ALC - Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:55 pm
Post subject:
Ah, the list of remaining items is growing... Shocked
Jelrak - Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:18 am
Post subject:
Yes, I have taken to itemizing more of the things I have always intended on doing or realized I should be doing. It helps to remind me what I am supposed to focus on each day. Some of these items likely will not delay the launch, but will be added in subsequent patches, while others are fairly simple to accomplish.

Currently I am trying to determine the name to call this mod. I have been referring to it either as Complex Ultra or Complex Amalgamation these past couple of years (and sometimes even simply 'Very' Complex).

I think I am leaning towards Complex Ultra, but am certainly open to other suggestions.

Latest updates:
1) Added Repair Focus -- the player using this option will have ships capable of regeneration (generally regeneration is absent in this mod), increased repair rates, mobile repair facilities (deployable by carrier), and ultimately the Lazarus station
2) Added Stealth Focus -- the player using this option will have stealthy ships, Spying Technology, improved pings, access to espionage options, and ultimately the Crucible Station
3) Added Defense Focus -- the player using this option will benefit from increased Defense Fields, a greater variety of Platforms, more Heavy Platforms, Emplacements, Combat Bases, and ultimately potential access to the Death Star
4) Added Infiltration Focus -- the player using this option will not have native access to many larger ships, but will have improved capturing abilities, access to Mercenaries, and ultimately the prison Battlestation
5) Fine-tuned Sub-Stations and Constructor ships to ensure easier access to the basic building mechanics as well as a more balanced distribution of both
6) Added 7 new Sub-Stations for a grand total of 15 so now the effect is more of a small community when all are deployed:
a) Commercial (new)
b) Financial (new)
c) Industrial (new)
d) Fighter (new)
e) Corvette (new)
f) Frigate (new)
g) Underground Beacon
h) Diplomacy
i) Weapon
j) Research
k) Crew
l) Power
m) Engineering
n) Recycling
o) Information Bureau (new)
7) Added 4 additional Mothership chassis each available only under certain select conditions
8) Implemented New Ranks: Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral, Galactic Admiral

Remaining:
1) Complete Hiigaran upgrades (January)
a) Drones (January)
b) Flagships & Warships (January) <--W.I.P.
c) Dreadnaughts (January)
2) Complete documentation <--W.I.P.
3) Refine resourcing operations (January) <--W.I.P.
4) Update and Refine Research Tree
5) Begin play-testing** (January)
6) Rewrite AI scripts and update Class Definitions
7) Correct all subsystem icons
8) Review and complete play-testing
9) Correct Selection Limits On All Ships (60% Complete)
10) Correct Tactical Icons, Both In Style And Distance (60% Complete)
11) Update all missile/munitions armour and attack families
12) Adjust Ship Regeneration Values
13) Finish Faction & Ship Descriptions
14) Complete Advanced Defense Focus (Upgrades)
15) Complete Advanced Repair Focus (Upgrades)
16) Complete Advanced Stealth Focus (Upgrades)
18) Complete Advanced Infiltration Focus
19) Complete Focus Bonus Stations
20) Adjust Parade Entries
ALC - Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:15 pm
Post subject:
Jelrak wrote:
Currently I am trying to determine the name to call this mod.

'Complex and Empire'
Jelrak - Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:31 pm
Post subject:
I like the sound of that...and now the adjectified version: Complex Empire Smile
Jelrak - Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:42 am
Post subject:
Latest Updates:
1) Added Banking And Investing systems
a) Players using the Advanced Financing Focus will now be able to invest unused R.U.s for fixed terms at specified interest rates. Funds cannot be used during the term of the investment
2) Completed Advanced Infiltration Focus
3) Completed Focus Bonus Stations

Remaining (In Order Of Priority):
1) Complete Hiigaran Upgrades (January) (Est. 10 days)
a) Drones (January) (Est. 1 day)
b) Flagships & Warships (January) (Est. 2 days) <--W.I.P.
c) Dreadnaughts (January) (Est. 1 day)
d) Complete Advanced Defense Focus (Upgrades) (Est. 2 days) [COMPLETED]
e) Complete Advanced Repair Focus (Upgrades) (Est. 2 days) [COMPLETED]
f) Complete Advanced Stealth Focus (Upgrades) (Est. 2 days) [COMPLETED]
g) Adjust Ship Regeneration Values (Including Shiphold Repair Rates) (Est. 2 days) [COMPLETED]
h) Adjust Stealth Ratings (Est. 2 days) [COMPLETED]
i) Adjust Sensor Ranges (Est. 2 days) [COMPLETED]

2) Refine resourcing operations (January) (Est. 2 - 3 weeks) <--W.I.P.
a) Automate Economy (Est. 3 days)
b) Implement Stock Market System (Est. 2 days)
c) Implement Commodity Markets (Est. 2 days)
d) Implement Trade Group Controls (Est 6 days)
e) Implement Gather/Buy/Sell/Build Command Automation (Est 2 days)
f) Complete Implementation Of Alternate Resource Paths (Est 5 days)
g) Finalize Honor Ratings For Ally Hiring

3) Update and Refine Research Tree (Est. 1 - 2 weeks)
a) Re-imagine Research Vessels And Remove Applied Research (4 days)
b) Add Espionage Tech (5 days)

4) Remove Unused Items (2 days)
a) Delete Unused Subsystems (1 day)
b) Remove Unused Music Files And Voice Commands (1 day)

5) Update all missile/munitions armour and attack families (Est. 20 mins)

6) Begin play-testing

Begin Work On Phase 2:
7) Readjust Weapons To Meld With New Gameplay (Est. 3 - 5 months)
a) Categorize All Weapons According To Chart (1 - 2 months)
b) Rearm All Ships According To Chart (2 - 3 months)
c) Add New Weapons Tech By Category (4 days)

Side Projects:
8) Complete documentation (50% complete) (Est. 1 week) <--W.I.P.
9) Correct Selection Limits On All Ships (Est. 3 days) [COMPLETED]
10) Correct Tactical Icons, Both In Style And Distance (Est. 3 days) [COMPLETED]
11) Finish Faction & Ship Descriptions (Est. 2 weeks)
12) Standardize All Orders And Sub-systems (Est. 3 days)
13) Adjust Parade Entries (Est. 2 days)
14) Rewrite AI scripts and update Class Definitions (Est. 2 - 3 months)
15) Correct all subsystem icons (Est. 2 - 3 months)
16) Refine Ship Icons (2 weeks)
17) Review and complete play-testing
ALC - Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:55 pm
Post subject:
Jelrak wrote:
I like the sound of that...and now the adjectified version: Complex Empire Smile
will i get a credit for the suggestion Very Happy
Jelrak - Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:02 pm
Post subject:
ALC wrote:
Jelrak wrote:
I like the sound of that...and now the adjectified version: Complex Empire Smile
will i get a credit for the suggestion Very Happy


Of course Smile
Jelrak - Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:41 am
Post subject:
Remaining (In Order Of Priority):
1) Complete Hiigaran Upgrades (January) (Est. 10 days)
a) Drones (January) (Est. 1 day)
b) Flagships (January) (Est. 2 days) [COMPLETED]
c) Warships (January) (Est. 2 days) <--W.I.P.
d) Dreadnaughts (January) (Est. 1 day)

2) Refine resourcing operations (January) (Est. 2 - 3 weeks) <--W.I.P.
a) Automate Economy (Est. 3 days)
b) Implement Stock Market System (Est. 2 days)
c) Implement Commodity Markets (Est. 2 days)
d) Implement Trade Group Controls (Est 6 days)
e) Implement Gather/Buy/Sell/Build Command Automation (Est 2 days)
f) Complete Implementation Of Alternate Resource Paths (Est 5 days)
g) Finalize Honor Ratings For Ally Hiring

3) Update and Refine Research Tree (Est. 1 - 2 weeks)
a) Re-imagine Research Vessels And Remove Applied Research (4 days)
b) Add Espionage Tech (5 days)

4) Remove Unused Items (2 days)
a) Delete Unused Subsystems (1 day)
b) Remove Unused Music Files And Voice Commands (1 day)

5) Update all missile/munitions armour and attack families (Est. 20 mins)

6) Begin play-testing

Begin Work On Phase 2:
7) Readjust Weapons To Meld With New Gameplay (Est. 3 - 5 months)
a) Categorize All Weapons According To Chart (1 - 2 months)
b) Rearm All Ships According To Chart (2 - 3 months)
c) Add New Weapons Tech By Category (4 days)

Side Projects:
8) Complete documentation (50% complete) (Est. 1 week) <--W.I.P.
9) Finish Faction & Ship Descriptions (Est. 2 weeks)
10) Standardize All Orders And Sub-systems (Est. 3 days)
11) Adjust Parade Entries (Est. 2 days)
12) Rewrite AI scripts and update Class Definitions (Est. 2 - 3 months)
13) Correct all subsystem icons (Est. 2 - 3 months)
14) Refine Ship Icons (2 weeks)
15) Review and complete play-testing
ALC - Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:51 pm
Post subject:
This is coming along fast!
Nice work. (Nods encouragingly)
Jelrak - Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:08 pm
Post subject:
Completed:
1) New Role Based Scouts/Fighters/Bombers (AKA Advanced Fighters)
a) This expands the role of strikecraft into the late game as the player should now have an appropriate countering Strikecraft for each potential situation
b) This does not negate the usefulness of larger ships, but merely provides an alternative counter-fleet for differing playstyles
c) Incorporates new Weapons system allowing for the choice from among 12 different weapon groups
d) Fighters no longer carry missiles, mostly for the sake of performance, but also to ensure a more purposeful distinction with Corvettes and to instill a better sense of realism (fighters would have to reload in order to provide repeat volleys)
d) 12 new display families have been established to help divide the different types

2) New crew-management system has replaced previous version
a) This new system utilizes the existing mechanic for restricting ships from being built without the need of removing ships from the build queue as did the previous version
b) This removes hundreds of duplicate ship names from the build list and greatly simplifies the adding of new ships or the updating of crew values going forward as it splits the officers from the crew/pilots
c) It also leaves the opportunity open to further divide pilots from crew should such a need come to light (to add more complexity)

3) Tanis shipyard assists in prolonging the early game
a) With the increased cost of stations both in terms of R.U.s and crew, there is now a longer window during which the player must wait in order to deploy all substations. Tanis now fills that void with buildable crew quarters, power units, R.U. storage, and research vessels
b) All of Tanis' improvements are typically on a much smaller scale than that available by the dedicated stations, but it does provide some needed room for flexibility
c) Impatient players may find it difficult to reach past the Strike units phase as they must set aside sufficient crew reserves in order to expand into larger ships: if they are consistently building to capacity they will fail to have the room necessary so this will create a strategy to potentially deter rushing while at the same time rewarding it (given the assumption that all other players are potentially waiting to build up their stations instead of their fleets)
d) This works nicely with the new Advanced Fighters option

Remaining (In Order Of Priority):
1) Complete Hiigaran Upgrades (January) (Est. 10 days)
a) Drones (January) (Est. 1 day)
b) Warships (January) (Est. 2 days) <--W.I.P.
c) Dreadnaughts (January) (Est. 1 day)

2) Refine resourcing operations (January) (Est. 2 - 3 weeks) <--W.I.P.
a) Automate Economy (Est. 3 days)
b) Implement Stock Market System (Est. 2 days)
c) Implement Commodity Markets (Est. 2 days)
d) Implement Trade Group Controls (Est 6 days)
e) Implement Gather/Buy/Sell/Build Command Automation (Est 2 days)
f) Complete Implementation Of Alternate Resource Paths (Est 5 days)
g) Finalize Honor Ratings For Ally Hiring

3) Update and Refine Research Tree (Est. 1 - 2 weeks)
a) Re-imagine Research Vessels And Remove Applied Research (4 days)
b) Add Espionage Tech (5 days)

4) Remove Unused Items (2 days)
a) Delete Unused Subsystems (1 day)
b) Remove Unused Music Files And Voice Commands (1 day)

5) Update all missile/munitions armour and attack families (Est. 20 mins)

6) Begin play-testing

Begin Work On Phase 2:
7) Readjust Weapons To Meld With New Gameplay (Est. 3 - 5 months)
a) Categorize All Weapons According To Chart (1 - 2 months)
b) Rearm All Ships According To Chart (2 - 3 months)
c) Add New Weapons Tech By Category (4 days)

Side Projects:
8) Complete documentation (50% complete) (Est. 1 week) <--W.I.P.
9) Finish Faction & Ship Descriptions (Est. 2 weeks)
10) Standardize All Orders And Sub-systems (Est. 3 days)
11) Adjust Parade Entries (Est. 2 days)
12) Rewrite AI scripts and update Class Definitions (Est. 2 - 3 months)
13) Correct all subsystem icons (Est. 2 - 3 months)
14) Refine Ship Icons (2 weeks)
15) Review and complete play-testing
ALC - Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:33 pm
Post subject:
Are the time estimates concurrent or consequitive, I wonder.
Jelrak - Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:47 pm
Post subject:
ALC wrote:
Are the time estimates concurrent or consequitive, I wonder.


Some items can be completed together, and of course the headings in each section is a summary of all that follows (such as the Hiigaran upgrades will be finished overall when the Drones, Warships and Dreadnaughts are complete).

Some delays have been caused by realizing certain elements must be in place before advancing beyond them...for instance no more work has been done on upgrades as a result of the Advanced Fighters addition since there is now an opportunity to implement the phase II weapons into these fighters as a test case. Further, it does not seem likely that every Focus truly requires its own Warlord Class ship.

Completed:
1) ~220 new weapons for the new fighters

Remaining (In Order Of Priority):
1) Complete Hiigaran Upgrades (Est. 2 weeks)
a) Drones (Est. 1 day)
b) Heavy Corvettes (Est. 1 day)
c) Heavy Frigates (Est. 1 day)
d) Warships (Est. 1 day)
e) Dreadnaughts (Est. 1 day)
f) Probes (Est. 3 days) [COMPLETE]
g) Platforms (Est. 5 days) [COMPLETE]
h) Complete Advanced Fighters (Est. 2 days) [COMPLETE]

2) Enhance Gameplay And Finish Sub-Station Updates (Est. 2 - 3 months)
a) Automate Economy (Est. 3 days)
b) Implement Stock Market System (Est. 2 days)
c) Implement Commodity Markets (Est. 2 days)
d) Implement Trade Group Controls (Est 6 days)
e) Implement Gather/Buy/Sell/Build Command Automation (Est 2 days)
f) Complete Implementation Of Alternate Resource Paths (Est 5 days)
g) Finalize Honor Ratings For Ally Hiring [COMPLETE]
h) Refine resourcing operations (Est. 2 - 3 weeks)
i) Update Diplomacy Sub-Station (Est. 1 week) [COMPLETE]
j) Update Beacon Sub-Station (Est. 1 week) [COMPLETE]
k) Update Commercial Sub-Station (Est. 1 week)
l) Update Financial Sub-Station (Est. 1 week)
m) Update Engineering Sub-Station (Est. 1 week)
n) Update Power Sub-Station (Est. 1 week)
o) Update Industrial Sub-Station (Est. 1 week)
p) Update Crew Sub-Station (Est. 1 week)
1) Added Space Force [COMPLETE]
2) Added Space Army [COMPLETE]
3) Clarified Role Of Space Navy [COMPLETE]
4) Added Civilian Population Transports [COMPLETE]
q) Update Research Sub-Station (Est. 1 week)
r) Update Information Sub-Station (Est. 1 week)
s) Update Espionage Sub-Station (Est. 1 week)
t) Update Weapon Sub-Station (Est. 1 week)
u) Update Recycling Sub-Station (Est. 1 week)
v) Add latch paths and harvesting instructions to all 6 asteroids


3) Update and Refine Research Tree (Est. 1 - 2 weeks)
a) Re-imagine Research Vessels And Remove Applied Research (4 days)
b) Add Espionage Tech (5 days)

4) Remove Unused Items (2 days)
a) Delete Unused Subsystems (1 day)
b) Remove Unused Music Files And Voice Commands (1 day)

5) Update all missile/munitions armour and attack families (Est. 20 mins)

6) Begin play-testing

Begin Work On Phase 2:
7) Readjust Weapons To Meld With New Gameplay (Est. 3 - 5 months)
a) Categorize All Weapons According To Chart (1 - 2 months)
i) Fighters [COMPLETE]
b) Rearm All Ships According To Chart (2 - 3 months)
i) Fighters (Est. 1 day)
c) Add New Weapons Tech By Category (4 days)
i) Fighters (Est. 1 day)

Side Projects:
8) Complete documentation (50% complete) (Est. 1 week) <--W.I.P.
9) Finish Faction & Ship Descriptions (Est. 2 weeks)
10) Standardize All Orders And Sub-systems (Est. 3 days)
11) Adjust Parade Entries (Est. 2 days)
12) Rewrite AI scripts and update Class Definitions (Est. 2 - 3 months)
13) Correct all subsystem icons (Est. 2 - 3 months)
14) Refine Ship Icons (2 weeks)
15) Review and complete play-testing
16) Re-adjust all weapons with new Penetration default
Jelrak - Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:55 pm
Post subject:
Remaining (In Order Of Priority):
1) Complete Hiigaran Upgrades (Est. 2 weeks)
a) Drones (Est. 1 day)
b) Heavy Corvettes (Est. 1 day)
c) Heavy Frigates (Est. 1 day)
d) Warships (Est. 1 day)
e) Dreadnaughts (Est. 1 day)

2) Enhance Gameplay And Finish Sub-Station Updates (Est. 2 - 3 months)
a) Automate Economy (Est. 3 days)[COMPLETE]
b) Implement Stock Market System (Est. 2 days)
c) Implement Commodity Markets (Est. 2 days) [COMPLETE]
d) Implement Trade Group Controls (Est 6 days)
e) Implement Gather/Buy/Sell/Build Command Automation (Est 2 days) [COMPLETE]
f) Complete Implementation Of Alternate Resource Paths (Est 5 days)[COMPLETE]
h) Refine resourcing operations (Est. 2 - 3 weeks) [COMPLETE]
i) Update Diplomacy Sub-Station (Est. 1 week) [COMPLETE]
j) Update Beacon Sub-Station (Est. 1 week) [COMPLETE]
k) Update Commercial Sub-Station (Est. 1 week) [COMPLETE]
l) Update Financial Sub-Station (Est. 1 week)[COMPLETE]
m) Update Engineering Sub-Station (Est. 1 week)
n) Update Power Sub-Station (Est. 1 week)[COMPLETE]
o) Update Industrial Sub-Station (Est. 1 week) [COMPLETE]
p) Update Crew Sub-Station (Est. 1 week) [COMPLETE]
1) Added Space Force [COMPLETE]
2) Added Space Army [COMPLETE]
3) Clarified Role Of Space Navy [COMPLETE]
4) Added Civilian Population Transports [COMPLETE]
5) Added Scientists, 5 classes -- Scientists are required for certain stations and/or research [COMPLETE]
6) Added Engineers, 5 classes -- Engineers are required for certain stations and/or research [COMPLETE]
7) Added Agents, 5 classes -- Agents are required for certain stations and provide the ability to launch espionage missions [COMPLETE]
8) Added Professionals, 5 classes -- Professionals are required for certain stations and various defined tasks [COMPLETE]
9) Added Laborers, 5 classes -- Laborers are required for certain stations and various defined tasks [COMPLETE]
10) Added Entertainers, 5 classes -- Entertainers are required to offset various population requirements
q) Update Research Sub-Station (Est. 1 week)[COMPLETE]
r) Update Information Sub-Station (Est. 1 week)
s) Update Espionage Sub-Station (Est. 1 week)
t) Update Weapon Sub-Station (Est. 1 week)
u) Update Recycling Sub-Station (Est. 1 week)
v) Add latch paths and harvesting instructions to all 6 asteroids [COMPLETE]

3) Update and Refine Research Tree (Est. 1 - 2 weeks)
a) Re-imagine Research Vessels And Remove Applied Research (4 days)
b) Add Espionage Tech (5 days)

4) Remove Unused Items (2 days)
a) Delete Unused Subsystems (1 day)
b) Remove Unused Music Files And Voice Commands (1 day)

5) Update all missile/munitions armour and attack families (Est. 20 mins)

6) Begin play-testing

Begin Work On Phase 2:
7) Readjust Weapons To Meld With New Gameplay (Est. 3 - 5 months)
a) Categorize All Weapons According To Chart (1 - 2 months)
i) Fighters [COMPLETE]
b) Rearm All Ships According To Chart (2 - 3 months)
i) Fighters (Est. 1 day)
c) Add New Weapons Tech By Category (4 days)
i) Fighters (Est. 1 day)

Side Projects:
8) Complete documentation (50% complete) (Est. 1 week) <--W.I.P.
9) Finish Faction & Ship Descriptions (Est. 2 weeks)
10) Standardize All Orders And Sub-systems (Est. 3 days)
11) Adjust Parade Entries (Est. 2 days)
12) Rewrite AI scripts and update Class Definitions (Est. 2 - 3 months)
13) Correct all subsystem icons (Est. 2 - 3 months)
14) Refine Ship Icons (2 weeks)
15) Review and complete play-testing
16) Re-adjust all weapons with new Penetration default
ALC - Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:23 am
Post subject:
Lots of completed flags there!
Jelrak wrote:
...Complete documentation (50% complete) (Est. 1 week) <--W.I.P

Smart idea to work on the documentation as you progress, saves the burden of having to do it at the end Wink
Documentation will add quality to the mod!
Jelrak - Sun May 06, 2018 1:15 pm
Post subject:
Remaining (In Order Of Priority):

1) Enhance Gameplay And Finish Sub-Station Updates (Est. 1 month)
a) Implement Stock Market System (Est. 2 days) [COMPLETE]
b) Implement Trade Group Controls (Est 6 days) [COMPLETE]
c) Update Engineering Sub-Station (Est. 1 week) [COMPLETE]
d) Update Information Sub-Station (Est. 1 week) [COMPLETE]
e) Update Espionage Sub-Station (Est. 1 week)
f) Update Weapon Sub-Station (Est. 1 week) [COMPLETE]
g) Update Recycling Sub-Station (Est. 1 week) [COMPLETE]
h) Complete Efficiency Production Stations (Est. 2 days) [COMPLETE]
i) Complete Advanced Science Focus (Est. 1 week)
j) Complete Population Transits (Est 1 Day)
k) Emergency Defense System on the Hiigaran Flagships, Capital City, Population, Resource Point, Industrial, and Defense Stations [COMPLETE]
l) Emergency Defense System on the Tanis, Weapons, and Heavy Industrial Stations [COMPLETE]
m) Finish resource deductions system

2) Update and Refine Research Tree (Est. 1 - 2 weeks)
a) Re-imagine Research Vessels And Remove Applied Research (4 days)
b) Add Espionage Tech (5 days)

3) Remove Unused Items (2 days)
a) Delete Unused Subsystems (1 day)
b) Remove Unused Music Files And Voice Commands (1 day)

4) Update all missile/munitions armour and attack families (Est. 20 mins) [COMPLETE]

5) Update all weapons [COMPLETE]

6) Begin play-testing [PHASE ONE COMPLETE]

Begin Work On Phase 2:
6) Readjust Weapons To Meld With New Gameplay (Est. 3 - 5 months)
a) Categorize All Weapons According To Chart (1 - 2 months)
i) Fighters [COMPLETE]
b) Rearm All Ships According To Chart (2 - 3 months)
i) Fighters (Est. 1 day)
c) Add New Weapons Tech By Category (4 days)
i) Fighters (Est. 1 day)

Side Projects (Non-Essential For Mod Playability):
7) Enable Corporate Profits With Controlling Interest In Companies (Est. 3 Days)
8) Complete documentation (50% complete) (Est. 1 week) <--W.I.P.
9) Finish Faction & Ship Descriptions (Est. 2 weeks)
10) Standardize All Orders And Sub-systems (Est. 3 days)
11) Adjust Parade Entries (Est. 2 days)
12) Rewrite AI scripts and update Class Definitions (Est. 2 - 3 months)
13) Correct all subsystem icons (Est. 2 - 3 months)
14) Refine Ship Icons (2 weeks)
15) Review and complete play-testing
16) Re-adjust all weapons with new Penetration default [COMPLETE]
17) Finish Fuel Distribution System
18) Complete Entertainer Class [COMPLETE]
19) Complete Crew Drafting Options [COMPLETE]
20) Complete Hiigaran Upgrades (Est. 2 weeks)
a) Drones (Est. 1 day) [COMPLETE]
b) Heavy Corvettes (Est. 1 day)
c) Heavy Frigates (Est. 1 day)
d) Warships (Est. 1 day)
e) Dreadnaughts (Est. 1 day)
21) Correct platform duplicates [COMPLETE]
ALC - Sun May 06, 2018 3:03 pm
Post subject:
Est .around another year in those tasks.
Jelrak - Mon May 07, 2018 1:12 am
Post subject:
Largely it depends on various factors outside of my control...I lost a lot of productivity recently due to poor health. I will endeavor to finish by the summer if at all possible.

There will be some important balance issues to address starting from that time
ALC - Wed May 09, 2018 11:47 am
Post subject:
You are making good steady progress on the project Very Happy
Jelrak - Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:53 am
Post subject:
Remaining (In Order Of Priority):

1) Enhance Gameplay And Finish Sub-Station Updates (Est. 1 month)
e) Update Espionage Sub-Station (Est. 1 week)
i) Complete Advanced Science Focus (Est. 1 week)
j) Complete Population Transits (Est 1 Day)
m) Finish resource deductions system (Est 3 Weeks) [PENDING]

2) Update and Refine Research Tree (Est. 1 - 2 weeks)
a) Re-imagine Research Vessels And Remove Applied Research (4 days)
b) Add Espionage Tech (5 days)

3) Remove Unused Items (2 days)
a) Delete Unused Subsystems (1 day)
b) Remove Unused Music Files And Voice Commands (1 day)

6) Begin play-testing [PHASE TWO COMPLETE]

Begin Work On Phase 2:
6) Readjust Weapons To Meld With New Gameplay (Est. 3 - 5 months)
a) Categorize All Weapons According To Chart (1 - 2 months)
i) Fighters [COMPLETE]
b) Rearm All Ships According To Chart (2 - 3 months)
i) Fighters (Est. 1 day)
c) Add New Weapons Tech By Category (4 days)
i) Fighters (Est. 1 day)

Side Projects (Non-Essential For Mod Playability):
7) Enable Corporate Profits With Controlling Interest In Companies (Est. 3 Days)
8) Complete documentation (50% complete) (Est. 1 week) <--W.I.P.
9) Finish Faction & Ship Descriptions (Est. 2 weeks)
10) Standardize All Orders And Sub-systems (Est. 3 days)
11) Adjust Parade Entries (Est. 2 days)
12) Rewrite AI scripts and update Class Definitions (Est. 2 - 3 months)
13) Correct all subsystem icons (Est. 2 - 3 months)
14) Refine Ship Icons (2 weeks)
15) Review and complete play-testing
17) Finish Fuel Distribution System

20) Complete Hiigaran Upgrades (Est. 2 weeks)
b) Heavy Corvettes (Est. 1 day) [PENDING]
c) Heavy Frigates (Est. 1 day) [PENDING]
d) Warships (Est. 1 day)
e) Dreadnaughts (Est. 1 day)
Jelrak - Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:07 pm
Post subject:
Latest Updates:

Added:
1) Advanced Weapons Stations
2) Changed production facilities from being simple subsystems to being more proper stand-alone stations. In this way when the Mothership builds a fighter facility, for example, it spawns an actual fighter sub-station instead. Affects Mothership and Tanis production facilities only.
3) University: a better way to train scientists
4) Development Association: engineer training facility
5) Technical Institute: trains professionals
6) Vocational College: for channeling labourers
7) Refined Arts College: for hiring leisurists
8) Agent Training Facility
9) Temple: for improving empire-wide morale
10) Neighbouring Trade City: provides access to nearby trade markets for population-based income growth
11) Trinity Star Base: consolidation headquarters for all 3 branches of the military to improve efficiency, thereby greatly increasing recruiting speed.
12) Reduced memory load by 50%

Remaining (In Order Of Priority):

1) Enhance Gameplay [COMPLETE] And Finish Sub-Station Updates (Est. 2 weeks)
a) Update Espionage Sub-Station (Est. 1 week)
b) Complete Advanced Science Focus (Est. 1 week) [PENDING]
c) Complete Population Transits (Est 1 Day) [COMPLETE]
d) Finish resource deductions system (Est 3 Weeks) [COMPLETE]

2) Update and Refine Research Tree (Est. 1 - 2 weeks) [PENDING]
a) Re-imagine Research Vessels And Remove Applied Research (4 days) [PENDING]
b) Add Espionage Tech (5 days)
c) Implement Inventors (Est. 1 - 2 days) [PENDING]

3) Remove Unused Items (2 days)
a) Delete Unused Subsystems (1 day)
b) Remove Unused Music Files And Voice Commands (1 day)

6) Begin play-testing [PHASE FOURCOMPLETE]

Begin Work On Phase 2:
6) Readjust Weapons To Meld With New Gameplay (Est. 3 - 5 months)
a) Categorize All Weapons According To Chart (1 - 2 months)
i) Fighters [COMPLETE]
b) Rearm All Ships According To Chart (2 - 3 months)
i) Fighters (Est. 1 day) [COMPLETE]
c) Add New Weapons Tech By Category (4 days) [COMPLETE]
i) Fighters (Est. 1 day) [COMPLETE]

Side Projects (Non-Essential For Mod Playability):
7) Enable Corporate Profits With Controlling Interest In Companies (Est. 3 Days)
8) Complete documentation (50% complete) (Est. 1 week) <--W.I.P.
9) Finish Faction & Ship Descriptions (Est. 2 weeks)
10) Standardize All Orders And Sub-systems (Est. 3 days)
11) Adjust Parade Entries (Est. 2 days)
12) Rewrite AI scripts and update Class Definitions (Est. 2 - 3 months)
13) Correct all subsystem icons (Est. 2 - 3 months)
14) Refine Ship Icons (2 weeks)
15) Review and complete play-testing
17) Finish Fuel Distribution System

20) Complete Hiigaran Upgrades (Est. 1 week) [COMPLETE]
b) Heavy Corvettes (Est. 1 day) [COMPLETE]
c) Heavy Frigates (Est. 1 day) [COMPLETE]
d) Warships (Est. 1 day) [COMPLETE]
e) Dreadnaughts (Est. 1 day) [COMPLETE]
ALC - Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:16 am
Post subject:
Progress!

Regarding the removal of unused components, does this improve overal performance (less items to load on game launch), or does it just serve to keep the final file size to a minimum?
Jelrak - Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:29 am
Post subject:
Yes there has been a lot of progress in the background...far more than has been detailed here. The manual will require some extensive updating, which I have put off completing until all final revisions are in place. My "To Do" list has fallen from over ten pages of notes to only two as so much has been completed.

As for removing unused components, that will only decrease the final file size--something which will be critical in the final stages of packaging as right now the data folder is well over 18 GB...current memory load has been decreased from 2 GB to 740 MB when using a high-end graphics card (it appears to be a larger footprint when run through my built-in graphics card instead).
ALC - Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:13 pm
Post subject:
Hmmm, that's a beefy Data folder alright Shocked stuff adds up.
Jelrak - Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:40 pm
Post subject:
Remaining (In Order Of Priority):

1) Finish Sub-Station Updates (Est. 2 weeks)
a) Update Espionage Sub-Station (Est. 1 week)
b) Complete Advanced Science Focus (Est. 1 week) [PENDING]

2) Update and Refine Research Tree (Est. 1 - 2 weeks) [PENDING]
a) Re-imagine Research Vessels And Remove Applied Research (4 days) [PENDING]
b) Add Espionage Tech (5 days)
c) Implement Inventors (Est. 1 - 2 days) [PENDING]

3) Remove Unused Items (2 days)
a) Delete Unused Subsystems (1 day)
b) Remove Unused Music Files And Voice Commands (1 day)

4) Continue play-testing [PHASE 5]

5) Address player feedback:

Comment:
a) At some point in the game there are too many build queues to cycle through easily, especially on larger maps.
Possible Solutions:
i) Reduce stations with build queues
ii) Improve queue list interface to improve building management
iii) Consolidate Stations with build queues as the game progresses [Chosen Solution]

Likely a reasonable option even if the ability to improve the queue list interface is successful as the intent is for the player to graduate from micro-managing in the early game to overall empire management in the later part. Consolidating Stations will allow more time to be focused on fleet deployment and will make better use of the Governors already implemented in the game.


Comment:
b) The beginning game requires a lot of empire building, which comes at the expense of fleet development, leaving the player to face Vaygr Cruisers with only Fighter squadrons, especially when playing on Hard Mode.
Possible Solutions:
i) Increase initial populations of troops (especially army)
ii) Improve specialist bonuses when training centers are built
iii) Reduce specialist requirements
iv) Increase accessible resources [Chosen Solution]

The intention of this game is to delay any obvious race towards capital ships by encouraging fuller use of entry-level systems of defense. This means that the early strategic deployment of platforms is essential, followed by a sustained fleet of fighters and bombers. Corvettes next play a crucial role in supporting, while not replacing, fighters. Heavy Corvettes and Frigates add a further dimension to this support. Access to Heavy Frigates and upwards is meant to be painful, and therefor meaningful, to achieve, but not essential. A player should be able to resist most advanced attacks with a reasonably strategic use of his/her defensive fleet.

This being said, it seems it would be helpful to increase access to R.U.s in the early game in order to better afford said defenses. An increase in Neighboring City passenger delivery rates will be implemented as a key means of accomplishing this goal.
[COMPLETE]

Comment:
c) Access to Carriers is too difficult, with many games passing without a single one being built.
Solution:
i) Lower the requirements for Carrier production
ii) Provide an entry-level Carrier for more immediate use
iii) Provide an initial Carrier for the player to use until sufficient resources can accrue to allow access to other Capital Ships

There is no obvious solution for this perceived difficulty, because the intent of this mod is to ensure players arrive at completely different outcomes with each play-through. If this means there are games in which Carriers (or even Hyperspace itself) is not used then this goal has been successfully met. Carriers are meant to be very important to the late game (which is also why they generally produce Elite versions of Fighters and Corvettes that are otherwise unavailable), and so would create too great an imbalance to early game-play. To provide an initial Carrier would only mean that it would become an irresistible early game target, and to improve accessibility to same would merely distract the early player towards achieving that goal ahead of the competition at the expense of a more properly developed empire.

Players without Carriers must simply make more effective use of Hyperspace Gates to help unify their empire until they have properly marshaled their resources to accomplish their goal.
The New Light Capital Production Station should help with its easier access to the Light Carrier. Other Carriers still must be constructed at the Shipyard Station. [COMPLETE]

Side Projects (Non-Essential For Mod Playability):

Other Comments:
d) Drones are too powerful against Capital ships and too weak against Fighters Although originally designed to be powerful anti-Frigates, Drones have now been given lighter weapons in order to compensate for their cheaper availability. [COMPLETE]
e) The Capital City is able to build Drones directly, but the Tanis Shipyard needs a special facility to be built to do the same thing, and the Drone Frigate can build them on its own!? The Capital City will be given Subsystem Bomber production capability instead and the Drone Frigate will be given a less powerful version to build. Its Drones may eventually be automated. [COMPLETE]
f) The icon for the Commercial Station builder is the same as the Salvage Resource Collector, which is confusing considering the first one is built at the Resource Station along with all other types of collectors, but the second one is not? [COMPLETE]
g) Corvettes do not seem to have much staying power compared to Fighters, and are usually destroyed before Bombers I believe this to be situational. Currently Corvettes have almost ten times the health of Bombers, but given they are only available in squadrons of three it is possible they simply are not able to return to base as often for repairs when engaged in a prolonged fight against larger odds. Corvettes are best used within the range of a nearby base, Mothership, or Carrier. [COMPLETE]
h) Platforms seem to cost a lot compared to how easy they can be to destroy with missiles Missile volleys are by their nature meant to obliterate targets incapable of sufficient evasive action. It would actually seem somewhat extraordinary if Platforms were not destroyed under these circumstances. Regardless, Platforms are being modified so that they will soon be built in sets of four (not as a squadron, but four unique versions of similar platforms) with a lower overall cost.
i) Ordinance-targeting ships do not seem to shoot down missiles properly
j) Power usage is way too high and/or the cost to build power production is too high The Population Station is now able to build as many power upgrades as the Tanis Shipyard. In addition, each successive magnet has been given slightly more production capacity than the one before. [COMPLETE]

Begin Work On Phase 2:
6) Categorize And Re-Arm All Sub-Capital And Lower Weapons According To New Game-play Chart (1 - 2 months)
i) Drones
ii) Fighters [COMPLETE]
iii) Bombers [COMPLETE]
iv) Corvettes
v) Heavy Corvettes
vi) Frigates
vii) Heavy Frigates
viii) Destroyers

7) Enable Corporate Profits With Controlling Interest In Companies (Est. 3 Days) ABANDON/ABEYANCE
8) Complete documentation (50% complete) (Est. 1 week) <--W.I.P.
9) Finish Faction & Ship Descriptions (Est. 2 weeks)
10) Standardize All Orders And Sub-systems (Est. 3 days) [PENDING]
11) Adjust Parade Entries (Est. 2 days)
12) Rewrite AI scripts and update Class Definitions (Est. 2 - 3 months)
13) Correct all subsystem icons (Est. 2 - 3 months)
14) Refine Ship Icons (2 weeks)
15) Finish Fuel Distribution System ABANDON/ABEYANCE
ALC - Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:45 pm
Post subject:
I see the word 'ABANDON' creeping in here!
Just in the corners though.
Jelrak - Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:37 am
Post subject:
I have not yet fully decided...though it is still possible those items may yet be completed, there are times when my impatience to wrap this project up certainly pushes me towards limiting some perhaps unnecessary features...
Jelrak - Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:32 am
Post subject:
Remaining (In Order Of Priority):

1) Finish Sub-Station Updates (Est. 2 weeks)
a) Update Espionage Sub-Station (Est. 1 week)
b) Complete Advanced Science Focus (Est. 1 week)

2) Update and Refine Research Tree (Est. 1 - 2 weeks)
a) Re-imagine Research Vessels And Remove Applied Research (4 days)
b) Add Espionage Tech (5 days)
c) Implement Inventors (Est. 1 - 2 days)

3) Remove Unused Items (2 days)
a) Delete Unused Subsystems (1 day)
b) Remove Unused Music Files And Voice Commands (1 day)

4) Continue play-testing [PHASE 6]

5) Address player feedback:
a) In more advanced games the system's resources can become maxed out regardless of low initial load (now down to 650MB). While this does not appear to affect the speed of ships or create any particular lag it does seem to manifest itself in strange situations (such as the Mothership spontaneously spinning off the map and detonating) and/or extreme texture reductions (even to the point of invisibility). This appears to be caused either by an excessive number of build queues or due to the increase in ships performing background functions outside of the player's controls (the community of ships). Spawning over 800 ships merely slows the game without other side effects. In current tests it appears to be the latter more than the former so an attempt must be made to reduce background complexity (which are not specifically game-necessary) EDIT: This does not seem to be caused by a large number of build queues alone[GAME BREAKING] [PENDING]
b) Improve build queue list interface [COMPLETE]

Side Projects (Non-Essential For Mod Playability):

Other Comments:
c) Consolidate unnecessary Stations:
i) Consider use of Central Command Stations for facilitating many tasks into fewer locations [PENDING]
ii) Replace certain sub-stations with ones lacking build-queues after they have complete their intended functions [PENDING]
iii) Provide the player the option to automate and turn off certain build queues by use of Governors (an AI assistance system for building management) [PENDING]
d) Create targeted Platforms [COMPLETE]
e) Ordinance-targeting ships do not seem to shoot down missiles properly

Begin Work On Phase 2:
6) Categorize And Re-Arm All Sub-Capital And Lower Weapons According To New Game-play Chart (1 - 2 months)
i) Drones
iv) Corvettes
v) Heavy Corvettes
vi) Frigates
vii) Heavy Frigates
viii) Destroyers

7) Enable Corporate Profits With Controlling Interest In Companies (Est. 3 Days) [ABEYANCE]
8) Complete documentation (50% complete) (Est. 1 week) <--W.I.P.
9) Finish Faction & Ship Descriptions (Est. 2 weeks)
10) Standardize All Orders And Sub-systems (Est. 3 days) [COMPLETE]
11) Adjust Parade Entries (Est. 2 days)
12) Rewrite AI scripts and update Class Definitions (Est. 2 - 3 months)
13) Correct all subsystem icons (Est. 2 - 3 months)
14) Refine Ship Icons (2 weeks)
15) Finish Fuel Distribution System [ABANDON]
ALC - Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:16 pm
Post subject:
You could postpone the less vital bits, to be added then in version 2.
Jelrak - Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:47 am
Post subject:
Yes, I suppose I could...currently the intent is to wrap up the few remaining bits and release the project for greater feedback anyway...
ALC - Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:25 am
Post subject:
Well, you have been working away at it for (quickly checks date of first post) two and a half years-that's good dedication. Nicely done.
I'll certainly dedicate a weekend to taking it for a spin in the combat grounds, in the interests of feedback Smile
Jelrak - Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:01 am
Post subject:
I appreciate that...!
Jelrak - Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:07 am
Post subject:
Remaining (In Order Of Priority):

1) Finish Sub-Station Updates (Est. 2 weeks)
a) Update Espionage Sub-Station (Est. 1 week) [PENDING]
b) Complete Advanced Science Focus (Est. 1 week) [COMPLETE]

2) Update and Refine Research Tree (Est. 1 - 2 weeks) [COMPLETE]
a) Re-imagine Research Vessels And Remove Applied Research (4 days) [COMPLETE]
b) Add Espionage Tech (5 days) [PENDING]
c) Implement Inventors (Est. 1 - 2 days) [COMPLETE] Inventors prevent a player from being able to research all items, forcing careful consideration over which advances might be most necessary for their particular strategy.
d) Androids Implemented

3) Remove Unused Items (2 days)
a) Delete Unused Subsystems (1 day)
b) Remove Unused Music Files And Voice Commands (1 day)

4) Continue play-testing [PHASE 6]

5) Address player feedback:
a) Reduce background complexity [PENDING]

Side Projects (Non-Essential For Mod Playability):

Other Comments:
c) Consolidate unnecessary Stations:
i) Consider use of Central Command Stations for facilitating many tasks into fewer locations [PENDING]
ii) Replace certain sub-stations with ones lacking build-queues after they have complete their intended functions [PENDING]
iii) Provide the player the option to automate and turn off certain build queues by use of Governors (an AI assistance system for building management) [PENDING]
e) Ordinance-targeting ships do not seem to shoot down missiles properly

Begin Work On Phase 2:
6) Categorize And Re-Arm All Sub-Capital And Lower Weapons According To New Game-play Chart (1 - 2 months)
i) Drones
iv) Corvettes
v) Heavy Corvettes
vi) Frigates
vii) Heavy Frigates
viii) Destroyers

7) Enable Corporate Profits With Controlling Interest In Companies (Est. 3 Days) [ABEYANCE]
8) Complete documentation (50% complete) (Est. 1 week) <--W.I.P.
9) Finish Faction & Ship Descriptions (Est. 2 weeks)
11) Adjust Parade Entries (Est. 2 days)
12) Rewrite AI scripts and update Class Definitions (Est. 2 - 3 months)
13) Correct all subsystem icons (Est. 2 - 3 months)
14) Refine Ship Icons (2 weeks)
Jelrak - Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:16 pm
Post subject:
Remaining (In Order Of Priority):

1) Finish Sub-Station Updates (Est. 2 weeks)
a) Update Espionage Sub-Station (Est. 1 week) [PENDING]
b) Add Espionage Tech (5 days) [PENDING]
c) Implement Governors
d) Add Android limits and construction

3) Remove Unused Items (2 days)
a) Delete Unused Subsystems (1 day)
b) Remove Unused Music Files And Voice Commands (1 day)

4) Continue play-testing [PHASE 7]

5) Address player feedback:
a) Reduce background complexity [PENDING]
Side Projects (Non-Essential For Mod Playability):

Other Comments:
c) Consolidate unnecessary Stations:
i) Consider use of Central Command Stations for facilitating many tasks into fewer locations [PENDING]
ii) Replace certain sub-stations with ones lacking build-queues after they have complete their intended functions [PENDING]
iii) Provide the player the option to automate and turn off certain build queues by use of Governors (an AI assistance system for building management) [PENDING]
e) Ordinance-targeting ships do not seem to shoot down missiles properly

Begin Work On Phase 2:
6) Categorize And Re-Arm All Sub-Capital And Lower Weapons According To New Game-play Chart (1 - 2 months)
i) Drones
iv) Corvettes
v) Heavy Corvettes
vi) Frigates
vii) Heavy Frigates
viii) Destroyers

7) Enable Corporate Profits With Controlling Interest In Companies (Est. 3 Days)
8) Complete documentation (60% complete) (Est. 1 week) <--W.I.P.
9) Finish Faction & Ship Descriptions (Est. 2 weeks)
11) Adjust Parade Entries (Est. 2 days)
12) Rewrite AI scripts and update Class Definitions (Est. 2 - 3 months)
13) Correct all subsystem icons (Est. 2 - 3 months)
14) Refine Ship Icons (2 weeks)
ALC - Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:35 pm
Post subject:
Hmm, i'm not sure about the 'Inventors' - if a player makes a mistake, it could be very costly!
Jelrak - Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:46 am
Post subject:
ALC wrote:
Hmm, i'm not sure about the 'Inventors' - if a player makes a mistake, it could be very costly!


Possibly...although the idea is to provide variety and to discourage a player from merely picking all research without a true strategy. The concept is to give more of a divergent research approach.

With this version of the game having an additional 1200 items to research, the consideration was that this would be too overwhelming if the player assumed a need to research everything.

So far it has provided some interesting results.

Regardless, currently this project is on hold until the background complexity issue can be addressed. The game functions perfectly...until it simply no longer does. There is no real sense of why it suddenly decides to cause all Motherships to self-destruct, but it seems to occur when the memory usage is around 700 MB and there is heavy space traffic.

Current options are to remove the space traffic, or seek to somehow further reduce the memory load.

Likely it will be the former, but I have not yet decided.
ALC - Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:26 pm
Post subject:
Self destructing Mother Ships is a significant bug.
Could something be causing their health to suddenly be set to zero for some reason. In the absence of a MS, does the same issue affect the most importsnt build ship of a given fleet, I wonder.
Jelrak - Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:30 am
Post subject:
They simply spin off of the map with full health and then explode. Other ships are able to keep building, presumably even to reconstruct a new mothership, so it does not appear to affect anything else. It seems to happen typically if there is more than a single computer opponent and the number of different automated ships exceeds an undetermined number. It typically results soon after some ships become invisible. It has been very curious to observe.
Jelrak - Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:15 am
Post subject:
Correction:

The number of automated ships is not relevant to this problem...nor is this caused by any obvious memory draw. I will have to investigate if this is caused by a function, and, if so, which one is responsible
ALC - Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:00 pm
Post subject:
Jelrak wrote:
They simply spin off of the map with full health and then explode.
I remember encountering this kind of issue in my map making days. There was some bug in the map I was building - AI MS would explode for no reason. I had to trash the map and start from dcratch. All I recall about it is that it was an issue with the map, and it was a very large map with six players.
Jelrak - Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:47 am
Post subject:
Interesting...I should see if this problem persists on multiple maps...it is possible I have chosen to test this game repeatedly on a map with some sort of incompatibility that is triggered by this mod.

Thank you, I will see what difference this makes
ALC - Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:28 pm
Post subject:
The map had been built with Skunks HW2 Map Editor, but then I was making some modifications by hand, can't remember what I was doing.
The map editor always made stable maps, so it was not at fault, I think.
Jelrak - Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:01 am
Post subject:
Multiple maps have been tested and the only difference it makes is how long it takes before the mothership self-destructs. The issue appears to be memory related. The game can last from one to four hours, but the end result is always the same. It is a shame because as it exists this game otherwise functions beautifully.

The only solution appears to be to scale back any items that require large amounts of memory and to reduce the background fleet transits.

Likely what this will require is the removal of any stations not absolutely necessary to the function of the game as well as a the reduction of all transport cells.

I suspect this will render this project much less interesting to pursue. I will suspend this project until I have decided that these changes will be worthwhile.
Jelrak - Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:35 am
Post subject:
I have identified about 500 ships that can be removed from the game to reduce memory requirements. I will see if this will resolve the problem.
ALC - Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:13 pm
Post subject:
An interesting issue, doesn't sound too good.
Are there any background processes which are memory intensive which sould be removed without affecting gameplay, I wonder.

It might be worth consulting Mickey and Oni on this to see if they have any suggestions, they may have come across the issue and found a solution for it.

Also, could there be some memory-hogging loop which might be causing the issue?
As an analogy (unrelated), in my floppy-disk days, I remember printing a small pdf file, created with a 'free' generator. The computer froze, and crashed. On investigation, I found a 2GB spool file stuck in a temp folder (2GB was the maximum allowable file size in those days), it had got stuck in a loop, spooled up until it ran out of memeory, spool file should have been around 400k.
Jelrak - Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:32 am
Post subject:
I feel fairly certain I can rule out memory-consuming loops as a cause, given that I monitor the program while it is running for memory usage. It reaches about 700 MB--which is fairly reasonable considering it used to load in the 1.2GB range--and then sometimes will run for up to four hours before this effect occurs. Other times it happens within only an hour or so. The main difference between the longer and shorter games are the number of enemy AIs and/or the map size.

The only thing I can determine is that either the game is striking some type of invisible wall relating to how many production-capable ships are on screen or else it is having difficulty with something specific to one or more of the models in play.

Currently when the models begin to disappear they are always the same ones that go black first. It is clearly not related to the number of ships at play, as I have spawned nearly one thousand frigates without encountering either the detail-blurring or the self-destruction.

I have also turned off ship transits and the problem still arises so it seems unlikely to be brought about by those specific scripts.

One other possibility, though, is that it is the result of a number of scripts gradually intersecting over time combined with something else.

One aspect that has me returning to the idea that it is memory-related and not caused by certain models is that occasionally the game will display the build cost for certain subsystems as extraordinarily high (in the tens or hundreds of millions), but if the player chooses to build it anyway they are granted immediately and the cost in RUs is added to the player's reserve instead of deducted. Clearly there is a fault line I am crossing in the background that is bringing forth these random results and I recall Oni mentioning that when the game runs out of memory it does strange things. Certainly these experiences qualify.

If I have removed the 500 ships and still have these issues at an even lower memory threshold I will better be able to rule out a lack of memory and instead be free to investigate closing off or otherwise optimizing the timing of certain scripts.
ALC - Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:29 pm
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It took me a while to find the old Map making threads when we were testing the available editors (I've added a link in the second post of the Bar & Grill so I can find the post again when I need it).
We ran a cross an issue with large maps, that above around 2,000,000 Distance Units AI can no longer ‘see’ across a map. I don’t recall if this was linked to the exploding MS issue, but I do remember that the issue occurred on very large maps with large numbers of players.

We were also adjusting some parameters of the starting players, possibly attempting to push it beyond six players, or attempting to specify a fixed AI start player race at a specific location (I do recall that this was one of the things we were trying to do, and that it didn’t work!) that couldn’t be altered. We were also experimenting with placing a MS in the map as a capturable derelict.

Could there be some issue that is causing the MS health to be drained, so that it isn’t actually a bug, but a ‘legal’ process that has been activated by another bug?

It is a pity that it was so long ago, several computers ago, since we were playing around with this, I might be of more help otherwise.

Map editor report thread is here:
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not sure if it will have anything of use to you.
ALC - Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:07 am
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Btw, don't give up—gotta keep the project alive.
Jelrak - Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:20 am
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ALC wrote:
It took me a while to find the old Map making threads when we were testing the available editors (I've added a link in the second post of the Bar & Grill so I can find the post again when I need it).
We ran a cross an issue with large maps, that above around 2,000,000 Distance Units AI can no longer ‘see’ across a map. I don’t recall if this was linked to the exploding MS issue, but I do remember that the issue occurred on very large maps with large numbers of players.

We were also adjusting some parameters of the starting players, possibly attempting to push it beyond six players, or attempting to specify a fixed AI start player race at a specific location (I do recall that this was one of the things we were trying to do, and that it didn’t work!) that couldn’t be altered. We were also experimenting with placing a MS in the map as a capturable derelict.

Could there be some issue that is causing the MS health to be drained, so that it isn’t actually a bug, but a ‘legal’ process that has been activated by another bug?

It is a pity that it was so long ago, several computers ago, since we were playing around with this, I might be of more help otherwise.

Map editor report thread is here:
Only registered users can see links on this board!
Get registred or enter the forums!

not sure if it will have anything of use to you.


Thank you for your efforts in offering assistance...so far nothing similar to what I have been experiencing seems to be in that thread.

As far as I can tell there does not appear to be a legal process that is doing this as the Mothership simply spins away with full health before exploding. In this mod the player actually has two ships that are identified as motherships to the program: the Pride of Hiigara and the Capital City. Both of these ships spin off the map and explode either in short succession or simultaneously. Everything else continues to work until the timer runs down that allows a player to rebuild its mothership without game loss. Clearly there appears some hard-coded fail-safe that indicates that if x occurs, the solution of last resort is to end the life of the player's mothership.

Another interesting detail that occurred on the most recent trial was that when the game year ended the player's income became negative. I have removed the 80 largest ships so far without effect...more to follow.
ALC - Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:50 am
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It occurs to me that there might be an issue with the player having two Motherships. Have you tried removing the Capital City, or downgrading its status to that of a Shipyard, so that there is one Mothership per player?
Jelrak - Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:11 am
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It is possible, but somewhat odd that it might randomly cause difficulty several hours into a game. Typically what happens is the same four or five ships become invisible and then within about half an hour the motherships spin away. I am testing to see what would happen if they are immediately re-built. I suppose if that fails and nothing else seems reasonable I will remove the second mothership designation.
ALC - Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:48 pm
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I wonder if there is anyone on the Relic forums who might have come across the issue - Mikali comes to mind, over at isometricland dot net. Afaik, he is still active.
Jelrak - Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:30 pm
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I will ask him what he thinks...thank you for the suggestion
ALC - Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:11 pm
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Were you able to get any insights into the problem, I wonder.
Jelrak - Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:05 am
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Unfortunately he had no suggestions...we are on our own on this one
ALC - Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:19 am
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Sad
I do wish I still had the files I encountered this error on, they might have been useful in a diagnosis now.
Jelrak - Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:54 am
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Ah well not to worry, though they would have been able to provide a great hint...the tests running now will hopeful reveal the mystery before too long
ALC - Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:48 am
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Jelrak wrote:
...the tests running now will hopeful reveal the mystery before too long
Fingers crossed!
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