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» Complex 12 feedback
by M.V.K. on Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:55 am

» Backgrounds
by M.V.K. on Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:56 pm

» Amalgamating Complex 9.1 & Warlords 0.60
by Jelrak on Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:07 am

» DOWNLOAD COMPLEX (last release 13.3)
by Zheega on Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:43 pm

» modding complex 12 parameters
by d138a2 on Sun May 13, 2018 5:45 am

» Complex 9.1 "complex extra" game type Crash
by mrkhor on Sat May 12, 2018 10:21 am

» "General Failure" Error message for complex 12.2
by Beghins on Sat May 12, 2018 1:01 am

» Any advance graphics to tweek for slow computers?
by Beghins on Thu May 10, 2018 11:35 pm

» Docking problem
by Beghins on Thu May 10, 2018 11:32 pm

» CBG Balance report thread ( April 22 update)
by ALC on Fri May 04, 2018 10:17 pm


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Announcement: Complex 12 feedback
Posted: MWLL_Vlaad @ Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:12 pm
Hi, long time follower here roughly since first complex.

Being that this is project based on passion and personal vision, I refrained from leaving feedback for earlier versions of complex as well as criticizing it too much as more than a few things rubbed me the wrong way.

For start, I have to say the you have my honest admiration for doing all this and keeping this mod alive. Awesome job!

From my subjective standpoint, I love this (RM) version of complex much more than old complex. Fleets are most certainly smaller, micromanaging comes more into play here and outcome is less focused on brute force and more on positioning... Until certain point.

However, it leaves much more to be desired, both from balance and technical standpoint.

I will announce, I never was a fan of juggernaut, weapon system such as mines and nuclear missiles, as well as uber-motherships.

Let me elaborate it a bit:

Jugger:

Destroyer class suicidal vessel with huge damage potential can under circumstances eliminate or heavily damage entire fleets. Add ability to hyperspace and things can spiral out of control really fast. Thematically, it never felt "higi".

Nuclear bombs and mines:

It is treated as a missile but is much larger (and slower) than a corvette. Damage potential is insane, it one shots destroyers (case with nuclear bombs). Brushing aside what it is, it has insane range and to top it off, it is buildable on destroyers. It flat out replaces some cannon systems. For example, in HW and HW2 universe entire ship is built around a weapon system (Vaygr BC) and here, we have an uption to outdamage/outrange its enture weapon system with a single buildable turret. To be clear, potential to one shot super capital and fired from a destroyer platform seems a bit broken. Visually, destroyer firing those looks a bit silly as each round is nearly 10% of its size. Granted, microing is one way but it gets really annoying really fast for something that can be produced on mass.

There are defenses against such weapons but its broken from technical side. Its not possible to manually target (even if it was, its not practical from gameplay standpoint) so ship will not fire at the missile unless its "locked on" to some target. When it does fire, it interrupts current order of given ship: For example, BC mounted fast laser turret will destroy the missile however, it will also cancel the current order. More often than not, it works to disadvantage. Here is a quick scenario:

BC starts shooting at the target (ion cannons) and opposing ship gives birth to a nuke. When in range of fast tracking turrets, shop will shoot down the missile but it will lose "tracking" of the target and not deal damage with its volley.

Since it IS a core design of the game I would propose to either allow those large weapons to be manually targeted/destroyable by anti fighter/corvette weapons.

Biggest gripe I have is in form of defense fields... for me, they are flat out game breaking: They are based on (variable) duration, not hit points and absorb nearly everything. Entire fleet of fully upgraded capital ships (4 destroyers, 3 cruisers, roughly 6-8 missile frigates), vaygr station and "uber cannon" on flagship could not kill one of those in timely manner. same fleet vapourised opposing "unshielded fleet". When in hands of a player... Silly things happen... 3 upgrades is enough to micro 2 frigates and shield entire fleet to the point where 3 BC's cant scratch paint from a destroyer.

Next, allowing those on motherships is plain silly... I was playing with a friend against 3 brutal CPU (higarans). On our first offensive, we each had 2 fully upgraded BC (so 4 in total) and a carrier as a utility vessel (ams and production). We were playing with small armies simply because game is unplayable with normal fleets (1080 gtx and appropriate CPU). Upon encountering combined fleets we wiped out 3 BC from few cpu and a bunch of smaller units only to arrive at CPU's mothership... Upon taking first bit of damage it activated its defense field... and by launching one by one of "viper missiles" slowly, like a killer in a slasher flick, butchered everything we threw at it. With just mothership.

Please, consider heavily reworking those elements.

From a technical standpoint: game has a problem at later stages of the game that it becomes too cluttered.. 4 Player game will produce lag even at lowest settings and small fleets. I never managed to finish a single multiplayer match due to desync (2 players, 3 cpu's brutal and small fleets).

Mowing while engaging is broken for me so positioning fleet adds to the gripe with field frigates.

On the end. i feel that complex was more when it was less. It tends to get cluttered (especially on the higaran side: Vortexes, stationary vortexes (platform).

Mind you, complex team, i'm pointing at things that in my opinion are out of place and beforementioned criticism/feedback is meant to improve the project not in any way belittle people who are putting their time into it Smile

Best regards!

Edit*

Seeing development plans of adding new races.. Guys, I think its a bit wiser to polish the gem you have than force new factions... Even now races play more or less similarly (tech tree is similar as is resource gathering, even weapon systems). Imho, without flushing out, its "more of the same".

Comments: 32 :: View Comments (Post your comment)
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