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Complex 11 Feedback
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Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 16
Xiaminou is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:38 pm    Post subject:  Complex 11 Feedback
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First of all I would like to thank Behgins and his team for porting Complex to Homeworld Remastered.

I have been a fan of Complex for quite some time now, and I can't remember the last time I played Homeworld without it.

Let's start with what I enjoyed in Complex Remastered.
The obvious, of course, would be the new graphics and overall more optimized game. But my favorite addition is definitely the modular Destroyers, being able to customize your Destroyers makes for very interesting strategies.
Compared to Complex 9, there are a few changes that I like, the most important being the removal of the Research Station Power Ups, which were terribly unbalanced.

Now on to the hard stuff, there are a few problems with Complex 11 that I feel should be looked into.
Let's start with the early game, the fighters and corvettes are too strong, by that I mean, they have too much health or resistance or anti-fighter/corvette weapons don't do enough damage.
From what I understand in HWR there is a new aiming mechanics which causes weapons to miss small ships such as fighters and corvettes more often (correct me if I'm wrong) and I did notice that it misses a lot. But that is fine. The problem is whenever they do hit, unupgraded weapons (no damage upgrade research) barely do any damage to fighters, which are supposed to be weak, and even less to corvettes. Even Kinetic Cannon, which you'd expect to 1 or 2 shot fighters barely does 10% of their health.
While I understand that individual fighters should be stronger because they're now individual, I think they should still go down fast if they do get hit by Kinetic Cannon.
I also think that fighters, and possibly corvettes, should be re-worked, I understand that they're made individually because you can now group them into formations, but I feel like they're not flying close enough while in those formations, and more importantly that the unit limit is preventing you from having a real fighter force.
Individual Fighters are too strong, you should be able to have more fighters but also weaker ones.

Which brings me to me second point, Unit Limits. In this regard, I have to say, I preferred Complex 9, having Class Specific Unit Limits is not something I would favor. You should be able to chose which ships you want on your fleet and in what quantity instead of just spamming ships of each Class until you reach the limit. If only for a balance/gameplay point of view I think it should be changed back to a global officier/crew limit.
Bombers are very strong at taking down capital ships, but with the limits I have found that if someone starts building a lot of Destroyer, you will not have enough bombers to take them down because of the limit.

I also preferred the "Research Oriented" progression in Complex 9, having to wait for Ranks to build the next Class of ship is way to linear and leaves little room for strategy.
More over, attacking your enemy early game has too high a chance to backfire and give them Rank Points which will put him ahead of you, making early game just a resource grind.
I much preferred Rank influencing your Unit Limit.

Research, right now, is a bit too linear too. And I feel like the games I have played relied too much on "Damage Upgrade" research. I also don't really like it just costing 1k more per tier. And finally I wouldn't mind seeing Class Specific health, weapon, drive etc... research instead of global, I feel like it made Complex more interesting.

Power, needs to be made more visible and explained, I still have no idea what it really does in Complex 11. More informations should be displayed for each ship, in my experience it seems to be important so it should be emphasized in the GUI. Maybe having custom options per ship for what power plant you want to use, which could influence speed, weapons or drive.
I also wouldn't mind seeing a "Recharge Station" to which you can dock your ships for fast recharge of energy.

And speaking of stations, something I have always wanted to see is a "Repair Station" where you can dock your ships for repair.

Which brings us to another point, Ship Repair. Right now patcher seems to be the meta, have them follow your ships around to repair them 24/7. I like the idea of repairing capital ships however I feel like patchers should have a "Repair Cost", meaning whenever they repair a ship they should drain some resources or energy. They could very well have a set amount of energy which they use to repair until they run out at which point they have to dock and recharge.

Sorry for the wall of text, but I love this game and hopefully I can help improve it.
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Complex Team

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Beghins is offline 

Location: Italy, Milan

Website: http://www.homeworld2c...

PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:08 pm    Post subject:  
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hey thank you, we would like to have tons of these posts, this is the reason I continue to work on Complex, feedback is our energy.
I agree with you in most of your points, especially for power that is going to be revisited.
We'll have a non linear research for Turanics, and maybe a class based research for the Taiidan.

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Age: 37
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HeavyTurret is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:13 am    Post subject:  
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Never did play Complex 9, but as for Complex 10, I agree with a lot of your points. However, I don't feel nerfing fighters/corvette health is the right option. If anything, they feel fairly weak in the later game, with the exception of bombers, but even there, the unit cap is limiting, as you mentioned.

The anti-fighter/corvette turrets could certainly be improved. But point defense weaponry on capital ships could also use an overhaul, in a similar fashion to the way the old Point Defense Mod for Homeworld 2 did it, by adding extra "gimble" weapon hardpoints for improved hull defense. This has the added benefit of making ship battles look even more spectacular, although that could come with a possible system performance loss.


Beghins, speaking of Turanics - do you have a specific way you're planning on differentiating their playstyle from the other factions (besides the research?) Being marauders/pirates, their ships would probably be of inferior quality, as mentioned in the dialogue in Homeworld 1. This would suggest that to win, they would need to either overwhelm opponents with superior numbers, or wear opponents down by use of electronic warfare weaponry. That is to say - they drag their enemies down to their own level.

It would be interesting to see Turanic ship subsystems dedicated not solely to improving their own fleet capability, but to hampering the abilities of the enemy. Similar to the Power Disruptor module, but better. Pirates don't care if they have to "cheat" to win.
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Age: 26
Joined: 21 Dec 2009
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Battlemaster is offline 

Location: Riga

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:26 am    Post subject:  
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Turanics could be a sub-race to Taidan faction. Taiidan can build "Hire" Turanic battle carrier, which would be able to build it's ships (Fighter/Corvettes/Frigates). Developing full capital line for pirates also might not be necessary. Allow Turanic battle carrier to mount destroyer grade weaponry.

As it was mentioned by HeavyTurret, Turanics are pirates. They took a lot of punches even from Kushans (who just entered into a space after long exile on Kharak). Even with some tech development, they would still be more a target practice, than actual threat to battle hardened Hiigaran Navy. Working together with Taidan could add some extra gameplay option to this race.
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