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Complex 8 beta 0.8 bug list
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barabas666

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:10 am    Post subject:  
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you are more than welcome be Beghins Very Happy and thats a very long list isn't it! mmmm if only i knew what it meant ^^ Embarassed
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:19 pm    Post subject:  
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Not sure if that's a bug.

On the Solar Map, when hyperspace a Command Fortress near a planet owned by an opponent the jump is interupted (that's a feature, right ? ) BUT the Fortress can not jump anymore after that, like it has been captured by the planet...

If it's not bug it's not logical anyway: i mean, the positions where jump are interupted are supposed to be the last ones where you can do every move.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:43 pm    Post subject:  
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Usually if you are pulled out of a jump by a grav well then the affected ship cannot jump away as it is still within the influence of that grav well. The affected ship has to head away before it can jump out. Your issue could be a similar occurrence in which case it isn't a bug.

As a test you could try repeating the jump with a BC and see if it can jump away after it moves back from the planet.

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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 12:20 pm    Post subject:  
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ALC wrote:
Usually if you are pulled out of a jump by a grav well then the affected ship cannot jump away as it is still within the influence of that grav well. The affected ship has to head away before it can jump out. Your issue could be a similar occurrence in which case it isn't a bug.

As a test you could try repeating the jump with a BC and see if it can jump away after it moves back from the planet.


The same way with other capitals (this particular feature is not a problem), except that they can move with their classic engines.

And again, that's not logical: if your ship is "captured" by planet gravity, that should be because it exceeds the point of gravity influence, and if its jump has been interrupted it is supposed to NOT having exceed this point. I mean, this particular point (the point of interruption...) should be the last point of free move...

If it's not a bug, a Fortress, about 30k ru's complete dev, is quite useless in planetary map.
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 1:55 pm    Post subject:  
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Ycar wrote:
...if its jump has been interrupted it is supposed to NOT having exceed this point. I mean, this particular point (the point of interruption...) should be the last point of free move...
No. There is a little thing called momentum, ship tumbles out of its jump continues to roll forward a bit. There's the logic.

Ycar wrote:
If it's not a bug, a Fortress, about 30k ru's complete dev, is quite useless in planetary map.
Not really, just don't jump too close to a planet's grav well with a CF.
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:06 pm    Post subject:  
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odd, after launching crew cells from a crew station the crew cells would just dock right back into a crew the crew station. i couldn't recruit more crew... it stopped launching cells altogether when i moved it closer to orbital station.
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ireland
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:19 pm    Post subject:  
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Are you sure you purchased all the ranks you are entitled to? Rank advancement is necessary for crew expansion. Also, you need to keep your honour points high enough for extra crew recruitment.
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:59 pm    Post subject:  
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ALC wrote:
No. There is a little thing called momentum, ship tumbles out of its jump continues to roll forward a bit. There's the logic.


Yep, in real space: what about this for a playable game ?
That works fine when the grav well is on a ship just because:
- you can kill it easily
- it's not supposed to stay inactive just for blocking your ship
- the range of a grav well on a ship is about, what ?, 5 km ?

In addition, if the main purpose is to only feature physical behaviour as they are supposed to be in reality, do you really think the technology of such a Fortress do not imply to be able to leave an orbital station ? Really ?

ALC wrote:
Not really, just don't jump too close to a planet's grav well with a CF.


Right. And as planet are the main base in such map (i.e. all what the player need is in this "planet atmosphere" with grav well effect, no need to move for Ru's) what's the purpose to build it ? Defence only ? Nice trip around the map ?


Non sense.
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 1:22 pm    Post subject:  
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I would send a recon mission first to have a look at the planet. And I would tend not to send a large asset like a CF in blind without an escort group. A CF is a station, primarily a defensive platform not an attack ship imho.

Ycar wrote:
Defence only?
That would be more or less what I would use it for.

EDIT: You could consider starting a thread about this CF issue in the main forum, see what others' experiences are.

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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 1:49 pm    Post subject:  
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ALC wrote:
I would send a recon mission first to have a look at the planet. And I would tend not to send a large asset like a CF in blind without an escort group. A CF is a station, primarily a defensive platform not an attack ship imho.

Ycar wrote:
Defence only?
That would be more or less what I would use it for.


So, the biggest and maybe the most powerfull ship in Complex:
1. is not able to leave an orbital station (wut, so low tech ship it is !)
2. is supposed to be mainly a defensive ship (but wait..., why is it so powerfull so ?)

Ok, ok, ok...
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canada
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 3:16 pm    Post subject:  
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1. is not able to leave an orbital station (wut, so low tech ship it is !)

NO ship can leave orbit of a planet through Hyperspace. Not the Battleship, not a Frigate, not a Battle Ark. Nothing. I could see how something like this could be troublesome, but there's not really a way around it either unless the Grav.well effect is completely removed.

Quote:

2. is supposed to be mainly a defensive ship (but wait..., why is it so powerfull so ?)

Yes, it is. Its weapons can blanket a pretty big area - and it is a Station - not an assault vessel, right? Stations aren't really used that much for assault - thats the job of BB's and BC's.

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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 4:24 pm    Post subject:  
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Walkop2011 wrote:

NO ship can leave orbit of a planet through Hyperspace. Not the Battleship, not a Frigate, not a Battle Ark. Nothing. I could see how something like this could be troublesome, but there's not really a way around it either unless the Grav.well effect is completely removed.


Thank you§§§

Do you know that any satellite have engines to maintain its orbit and most of them can use them combined with orbital speed to release themselves from planet attraction ( >13 km/s )?
Gravity well is already not a physical fatality today, mind you, what about a scifi fortress in far future so ?

At least, the fortress would have such correcting engines and, as you can not feature neither planet revolution nor ship speed in orbital station, it can uses them to release itself from orbit and jump away (very slowly as it's massive, for sure...), just like other capitals.

OR, if it's a station (as the name "Command Fortress" doesn't tell...) its purpose would be to stay in orbit around your planet as a pure defensive ship, and in that case it probably wouldn't have the ability to hyperspace anyway !


Walkop2011 wrote:

Yes, it is. Its weapons can blanket a pretty big area - and it is a Station - not an assault vessel, right? Stations aren't really used that much for assault - thats the job of BB's and BC's.


Sorry, but if it's not an assault vessel, why give it so much power and so high health ? Why give it the ability to move so far away with hyperspace ? Doesn't make sense at all...
In late game, on the contrary, a well used Command Fortress is decisive in offensive battle !

Platforms, as defensive ships, are very slow, some are one move only, and not hyperspace capable on their own... BECAUSE they are supposed to stay around build capable capitals and/or ru's operation for protection. That makes sense.
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 4:45 pm    Post subject:  
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Sorry, but if it's not an assault vessel, why give it so much power and so high health ? Why give it the ability to move so far away with hyperspace ? Doesn't make sense at all...

It can be used as an assault vessel, but its main purpose is to be able to defend and protect a large zone - as in the description of the fortress. If it couldn't hyperspace, it wouldn't be able to move anywhere (and even if it had engines, it would take much too long). Try sending a platform halfway acros the map, see how long it takes - then double or triple that time to account for the difference in size.
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At least, the fortress would have such correcting engines and, as you can not feature neither planet revolution nor ship speed in orbital station, it can uses them to release itself from orbit and jump away (very slowly as it's massive, for sure...), just like other capitals.

Agreed. The fortress should have correction engines to be able to complete slight adjustments to its heading etc. on its own.

Quote:

Gravity well is already not a physical fatality today, mind you, what about a scifi fortress in far future so?

Well, it isn't a detriment to any ship with engines, even in Homeworld times. Hyperspace and physical Drive systems are based on completely different principles. Also, in real world areas, try building a station that's 100's of times larger than the ISS and easily moving it - its not easily done Wink

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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 4:54 pm    Post subject:  
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Ycar wrote:

2. is supposed to be mainly a defensive ship
It's a Station.
Fortresses tend to be static fortifications.

Yes. Small thrusters for local re-alignment would be useful on the CF.

A gravity well most certainly would be a physical fatality today were you to get caught in it with insufficient resources to escape it. Splat you're dead sort of thing, rather like a bug against the windscreen of a fast moving car.

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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 5:39 pm    Post subject:  
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Walkop2011 wrote:

It can be used as an assault vessel, but its main purpose is to be able to defend and protect a large zone - as in the description of the fortress. If it couldn't hyperspace, it wouldn't be able to move anywhere (and even if it had engines, it would take much too long). Try sending a platform halfway acros the map, see how long it takes - then double or triple that time to account for the difference in size.


Right. As it's hyperspace capable and very powerfull... it is offensive ship. Laughing
Or you expect your opponent to attack your defensive position and he will lose every time: i've practiced such a strategy with IA on 7.4.4, and despite the fact it never builds the fortress, it won't be able to use it as offensive ship with my fortress in defensive position (thanks large range grav well). Smile

But fortress may be too powerfull as it is...


Walkop2011 wrote:

Agreed. The fortress should have correction engines to be able to complete slight adjustments to its heading etc. on its own.


That's all i ask. Very Happy


Walkop2011 wrote:

Well, it isn't a detriment to any ship with engines, even in Homeworld times. Hyperspace and physical Drive systems are based on completely different principles. Also, in real world areas, try building a station that's 100's of times larger than the ISS and easily moving it - its not easily done Wink


Yes... BUT, there's a proportional technology progression: if you have the global technology to build such a massive ship, with such powerfull weapon, and its massive power supply needs, you most probably have the technology to solve this particular problem of orbital release speed. Or you simply do not build such a ship, as a pure "Orbital Station" won't be hyperspace capable anyway. Wink
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